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Credit score absolutely affects what neighborhoods you can buy or rent in (so public schools) and whether you can afford private school. It’s obviously not a 1:

Credit score absolutely affects what neighborhoods you can buy or rent in (so public schools) and whether you can afford private school. It’s obviously not a 1:1 comparison or “this one is better than the other,” but when like Bill Kristol is floating the idea of regime change in China in response to news about the social credit system, I think it’s important to do some reflecting on our own oppressive systems.

mc32 8y ago
It's not a direct comparison. I think it's a bit of a stretch. Of course, not having money means you can't afford housing in a good school district, but if you happen to be poor or have bad credit but live in a good district (or borrow a relatives address) you can still put that kid in the district school. Basically, it's not a direct result. The most obvious difference is my _knowing_ someone with a bad score does not lower my score by loose association. Kristol is a war hawk, like many of the other conservative in name Neo-Cons. Glad their influence is now on the wane. What China is doing is not good, in many cases, but it's their problem and they can sort them out like they did in '49 and '66-'67. Somewhat more comparable is the German Schufa system --but it's till not the same.
- oldoverholt 8y ago
  It’s not direct, but the result can be the same (and it’s not just about being poor, it’s about a low credit score meaning you get shitty loan terms or a landlord isn’t willing to rent to you). I won’t defend the social credit system, but I do think there are enough parallels with credit scores that it’s worth mentioning in the interest of getting some justice in that area.
  - chii 8y ago
    credit score is purely financial. It "purely" indicates how likely you're going to default on your loans. A social "credit score" system is a way to control the behaviour of people in a society - by those who deem the control necessary for "the greater good". They are different classes of things - a financial credit score can be improved if your finances improve (by luck or by hardwork). A social credit score can't be improved unless you change your person/beliefs.
    - jdietrich 8y ago
      "Purely financial" things can also be political and discriminatory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining
    - oldoverholt 8y ago
      I don’t know enough about the social credit stuff to refute your characterization of it, but a financial credit score very much follows you even if you somehow end up with more money. Point is, a credit score often closes avenues by which you could get more money, hence the cyclical and punitive nature of it. The scare quotes of “the greater good” you used for the social credit system can equally be used to characterize credit scores as a way to control people’s financial and employment and living prospects in the interest of the “greater good” of financial markets. I think the idea that markets and the finance sector setting credit scores that have far reaching impacts on people’s lives is somehow categorically different than the state implementing a social credit system that might have similar outcomes isn’t correct. So we should talk about them in similar terms.
    - ouid 8y ago
      it's not purely financial. If you're a tenant and you get in a non-financial dispute with your landlord, for instance, your credit score can be affected easily.
      - dwild 8y ago
        > in a non-financial dispute with your landlord, for instance, your credit score can be affected easily How?
        ouid 8y ago
        eviction
        chii 8y ago
        only if you refuse to pay the rent.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
CamperBob2 8y ago
Isn't this basically the same sort of "whataboutism" that we decry elsewhere?
- oldoverholt 8y ago
  I’m not sure who “we” is or what varieties of “whataboutism” “we’ve” universally decried, so I don’t know how to reply to this.

mc32 8y ago

It's not a direct comparison. I think it's a bit of a stretch. Of course, not having money means you can't afford housing in a good school district, but if you happen to be poor or have bad credit but live in a good district (or borrow a relatives address) you can still put that kid in the district school. Basically, it's not a direct result. The most obvious difference is my _knowing_ someone with a bad score does not lower my score by loose association. Kristol is a war hawk, like many of the other conservative in name Neo-Cons. Glad their influence is now on the wane. What China is doing is not good, in many cases, but it's their problem and they can sort them out like they did in '49 and '66-'67. Somewhat more comparable is the German Schufa system --but it's till not the same.

oldoverholt 8y ago
It’s not direct, but the result can be the same (and it’s not just about being poor, it’s about a low credit score meaning you get shitty loan terms or a landlord isn’t willing to rent to you). I won’t defend the social credit system, but I do think there are enough parallels with credit scores that it’s worth mentioning in the interest of getting some justice in that area.
- chii 8y ago
  credit score is purely financial. It "purely" indicates how likely you're going to default on your loans. A social "credit score" system is a way to control the behaviour of people in a society - by those who deem the control necessary for "the greater good". They are different classes of things - a financial credit score can be improved if your finances improve (by luck or by hardwork). A social credit score can't be improved unless you change your person/beliefs.
  - jdietrich 8y ago
    "Purely financial" things can also be political and discriminatory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining
  - oldoverholt 8y ago
    I don’t know enough about the social credit stuff to refute your characterization of it, but a financial credit score very much follows you even if you somehow end up with more money. Point is, a credit score often closes avenues by which you could get more money, hence the cyclical and punitive nature of it. The scare quotes of “the greater good” you used for the social credit system can equally be used to characterize credit scores as a way to control people’s financial and employment and living prospects in the interest of the “greater good” of financial markets. I think the idea that markets and the finance sector setting credit scores that have far reaching impacts on people’s lives is somehow categorically different than the state implementing a social credit system that might have similar outcomes isn’t correct. So we should talk about them in similar terms.
  - ouid 8y ago
    it's not purely financial. If you're a tenant and you get in a non-financial dispute with your landlord, for instance, your credit score can be affected easily.
    - dwild 8y ago
      > in a non-financial dispute with your landlord, for instance, your credit score can be affected easily How?
      - ouid 8y ago
        eviction
        chii 8y ago
        only if you refuse to pay the rent.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

CamperBob2 8y ago

Isn't this basically the same sort of "whataboutism" that we decry elsewhere?

oldoverholt 8y ago
I’m not sure who “we” is or what varieties of “whataboutism” “we’ve” universally decried, so I don’t know how to reply to this.