8 ms·

Legalize Meth? Some of the most utilized “gateway drugs” are already legal (opiods et al). The police rarely arrests homeless drug users, and there’s plenty of

by herval 8y ago

Legalize Meth? Some of the most utilized “gateway drugs” are already legal (opiods et al). The police rarely arrests homeless drug users, and there’s plenty of foundations to supoort them. I don’t think the issue has to do with legalization... https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jimdalrympleii/public-drug-use-san-francisco https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jimdalrympleii/public-d... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/18/health/san-francisco-opioid-addiction.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/18/health/san-francisco-opio...

vorpalhex 8y ago
Legalization means non-leo intervention such as medical intervention and crises counseling. LEOs aren't interested in drug users because all they can do is arrest them which fixes nothing. The issue with the legalization approach is lack of intervention infrastructure to help them.
- TylerE 8y ago
  Legalization also means they can use the existing support structures without worrying about being thrown in prison because of what they may have in their pockets.
__blockcipher__ 8y ago
Yes, we should legalize drugs like meth. We need to bring "hard" drug use "into the light". That's the whole idea behind safe injection sites - doctors can monitor the opioid user for respiratory depression, and have an opportunity to convince them to enroll in some sort of program. (disclaimer: I'm not GP)
luka-birsa 8y ago
Look no further than Portugal and their solution to heroin problem - decriminalization of drugs. This enables NGOs to work with people more easily, removes the stigma, provides access to save consumption sites and safer drugs, allows for funding of new drug-abuse programs (such as better access to anti-opioids for medical staff), etc... it's not hard to figure out that whatever you're doing in the US is not working. I've been to SF and just walking past Tenderloin is not a preety sight. - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decriminalised-drugs-14-years-ago-and-now-hardly-anyone-dies-from-overdosing-10301780.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-dec... - https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/59eqqk/ungass-portugal-what-happened-after-decriminalization-drugs-weed-to-heroin https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/59eqqk/ungass-portugal-w...
- vkou 8y ago
  Vancouver[1] does all of this, short of making drugs flat-out-legal, and it is currently in the middle of an overdose crisis (In addition to the homelessness crisis that you would expect when rents and home prices skyrocket.) I don't think any solution short of the government/pharmacies selling/giving clean drugs to people with addictions (As long as they are actively attending counselling programs, that aren't one-size-fits-all 12-step nonsense) is going to work. [1] Also, a hospital bed to detox in is free, but good luck getting your shit together after you go through withdrawal.
  - munk-a 8y ago
    Vancouver has special problems to deal with, it is the only year-long livable city in Canada so a lot of people end up congregating here, additionally the housing market is absolutely bonkers. There is no significant provided housing in the city and it's causing the problem to get much worse - decriminalizing drugs has helped quite a bit with street safety though.
    - vkou 8y ago
      Street safety from gangs and drug traffickers may be better, but property crime is up, and my friends bitch non-stop about used needles, and having to share public space with aggressive homeless people. Also, 'All the homeless people moving to Vancouver' is a problem, but only a part of it. Most of the non-locals are from small dying towns in the BC interior. They aren't really suited, financially, to dealing with the social problems[1] that result - yet Vancouver would rather close its eyes, and pretend that they don't exist. Even so, if we sent everyone who isn't originally from Vancouver back to the towns they came from, there would still be a catastrophe of homelessness, overdose deaths, etc. [1] Yes, it would be much cheaper to provide housing for homeless persons, within their communities, instead of in the most expensive city in Canada. Sadly, nobody in Victoria seems to be keen on fixing this, on a province-wide level. The Liberals didn't care, and the NDP care, but aren't doing anything.
  - ams6110 8y ago
    In practice, given a person who wants to get clean, what works better than a 12-step program? I was under the impression that those were effective. Is the "higher power" thing what you are thinking of when you say "nonsense?" In many programs that is not specifically religious as much as it is admitting that your problem is bigger than yourself. And I think having a sponsor to help you through is a huge part of why these programs work. I have never been through a 12-step process but I know a few people who have done it for alcohol and it works for them (I know, survivorship bias etc.)

by herval 8y ago

vorpalhex 8y ago

Legalization means non-leo intervention such as medical intervention and crises counseling. LEOs aren't interested in drug users because all they can do is arrest them which fixes nothing. The issue with the legalization approach is lack of intervention infrastructure to help them.

TylerE 8y ago
Legalization also means they can use the existing support structures without worrying about being thrown in prison because of what they may have in their pockets.

__blockcipher__ 8y ago

Yes, we should legalize drugs like meth. We need to bring "hard" drug use "into the light". That's the whole idea behind safe injection sites - doctors can monitor the opioid user for respiratory depression, and have an opportunity to convince them to enroll in some sort of program. (disclaimer: I'm not GP)

luka-birsa 8y ago

Look no further than Portugal and their solution to heroin problem - decriminalization of drugs. This enables NGOs to work with people more easily, removes the stigma, provides access to save consumption sites and safer drugs, allows for funding of new drug-abuse programs (such as better access to anti-opioids for medical staff), etc... it's not hard to figure out that whatever you're doing in the US is not working. I've been to SF and just walking past Tenderloin is not a preety sight. - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decriminalised-drugs-14-years-ago-and-now-hardly-anyone-dies-from-overdosing-10301780.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-dec... - https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/59eqqk/ungass-portugal-what-happened-after-decriminalization-drugs-weed-to-heroin https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/59eqqk/ungass-portugal-w...

vkou 8y ago
Vancouver[1] does all of this, short of making drugs flat-out-legal, and it is currently in the middle of an overdose crisis (In addition to the homelessness crisis that you would expect when rents and home prices skyrocket.) I don't think any solution short of the government/pharmacies selling/giving clean drugs to people with addictions (As long as they are actively attending counselling programs, that aren't one-size-fits-all 12-step nonsense) is going to work. [1] Also, a hospital bed to detox in is free, but good luck getting your shit together after you go through withdrawal.
- munk-a 8y ago
  Vancouver has special problems to deal with, it is the only year-long livable city in Canada so a lot of people end up congregating here, additionally the housing market is absolutely bonkers. There is no significant provided housing in the city and it's causing the problem to get much worse - decriminalizing drugs has helped quite a bit with street safety though.
  - vkou 8y ago
    Street safety from gangs and drug traffickers may be better, but property crime is up, and my friends bitch non-stop about used needles, and having to share public space with aggressive homeless people. Also, 'All the homeless people moving to Vancouver' is a problem, but only a part of it. Most of the non-locals are from small dying towns in the BC interior. They aren't really suited, financially, to dealing with the social problems[1] that result - yet Vancouver would rather close its eyes, and pretend that they don't exist. Even so, if we sent everyone who isn't originally from Vancouver back to the towns they came from, there would still be a catastrophe of homelessness, overdose deaths, etc. [1] Yes, it would be much cheaper to provide housing for homeless persons, within their communities, instead of in the most expensive city in Canada. Sadly, nobody in Victoria seems to be keen on fixing this, on a province-wide level. The Liberals didn't care, and the NDP care, but aren't doing anything.
- ams6110 8y ago
  In practice, given a person who wants to get clean, what works better than a 12-step program? I was under the impression that those were effective. Is the "higher power" thing what you are thinking of when you say "nonsense?" In many programs that is not specifically religious as much as it is admitting that your problem is bigger than yourself. And I think having a sponsor to help you through is a huge part of why these programs work. I have never been through a 12-step process but I know a few people who have done it for alcohol and it works for them (I know, survivorship bias etc.)