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Yet, 90% of developers use Windows on a daily basis. The people interviewed in usesthis are just not very representative of the community (a bit like using a co

Yet, 90% of developers use Windows on a daily basis. The people interviewed in usesthis are just not very representative of the community (a bit like using a conference to claim that 90% of developers use Mac Books). I'm still sad to see some of these people (including pg) use such antiquated tools. I use vi on a daily basis but just for very small text files, you can be so much more productive with more modern tools these days.

ramchip 16y ago
> you can be so much more productive with more modern tools these days. I'm more productive and make much better-looking documents with emacs+xetex than with Word. YMMV.
- pyre 16y ago
  Maybe he considers emacs part of 'modern tools'?
  - aerique 16y ago
    I'd rephrase it and say: "You can be much more productive with mature tools.". Which Emacs and vi, ofcourse, are.
    - pyre 16y ago
      Is 'vi' mature? Or are you talking about Vim? vi has been around a long time, but the functionality is rather limited compared to Vim. When was the last development on vanilla vi (not Vim in compatibility mode)? [ keep in mind that 'mature' != 'old' ]
      - aerique 16y ago
        I meant Vim, sorry.
        pyre 16y ago
        I was probably being a little pedantic, but 'vi' can mean: - The original 'vi' editor - The entire 'vi collection.' By that I mean vi + clones (i.e. vi, vim, elvis, etc). - The Vim editor (being the most popular vi clone) I'm never sure which people mean (though they usually just mean Vim), and I've come across many people that are confused (especially if they aren't too familiar with the Unix/Linux ecosystem and/or are Emacs users) but the inter-changeable usage of terms.
Yaggo 16y ago
I find that 90% little hard to buy. Based on my experience, I would guess they all (Mac/Linux/Windows) have roughly 1/3rd share, the trend being rising for Mac and downward for Windows. (Okay, my view may be Western centric.)
pmarin 16y ago
In the Unix culture the people who claim to use vi actually use vi + shell + hundreds of little software tools. If it have worked for 30 years perhaps you should give it a try.
- endtime 16y ago
  That's not a very good argument. Horse-drawn buggies worked for well over 30 years.
  - sjs 16y ago
    TextMate is pretty popular and very productive, and it basically goes w/ the vi model. You extend it using external scripts, i.e. a bunch of little helper programs.
    - spacemanaki 16y ago
      This may not be historically accurate - ie not what Bill Joy originally intended, however I think of the "vi model" as the modal editing style which is what differentiates vi/vim for me.
  - pbhjpbhj 16y ago
    >That's not a very good argument. Horse-drawn buggies worked for well over 30 years. I can't see how this is a good counter-argument either. They still do work, they run on renewable fuel, growing the fuel can be enhanced by the waste products of the horse. They're relatively low maintenance, the motor can be interchanged and easily used to drive other machines. Certainly at city driving speeds the buggy is going to compete quite well. Yes a car or other automobile is going to outperform a horse & buggy in many situations but there are other aspects that are wins for the horse & buggy. I'd be interested to see a running cost and efficiency comparison, shoeing horses is probably quite expensive nowadays with the dearth of blacksmiths/farriers.
gfodor 16y ago
> I use vi on a daily basis but just for very small text files, you can be so much more productive with more modern tools these days. If there was ever a sentence more finely crafted to stoke a religious editor war, I sure haven't seen it!
earnubs 16y ago
I use Windows on a daily basis because I work in a place that insists I do, like most large organisations. 90% usage, if true, doesn't indicate Windows is better or worse. (Given the choice I would do my day to day job on a Mac.)
btilly 16y ago
Yet, 90% of developers use Windows on a daily basis. Citation needed. My primary operating system has been Linux for the last decade. I don't think that I'm that unusual.
- colomon 16y ago
  "Use Windows" might to be the key here. I mean, my main development machine is a MacBook Pro, and I use headless Linux machines heavily. But I've always got a Windows machine booted up, and I've got Parallels running Windows on my MBP about half of the time.
jrockway 16y ago
But 90% of developers produce negative work with these tools. It's not very useful to see what tools people use to produce crap. It's interesting to see what tools people choose to optimize their own creative productivity. I use vi on a daily basis but just for very small text files, you can be so much more productive with more modern tools these days. Well, yes; vim.

ramchip 16y ago

> you can be so much more productive with more modern tools these days. I'm more productive and make much better-looking documents with emacs+xetex than with Word. YMMV.

pyre 16y ago
Maybe he considers emacs part of 'modern tools'?
- aerique 16y ago
  I'd rephrase it and say: "You can be much more productive with mature tools.". Which Emacs and vi, ofcourse, are.
  - pyre 16y ago
    Is 'vi' mature? Or are you talking about Vim? vi has been around a long time, but the functionality is rather limited compared to Vim. When was the last development on vanilla vi (not Vim in compatibility mode)? [ keep in mind that 'mature' != 'old' ]
    - aerique 16y ago
      I meant Vim, sorry.
      - pyre 16y ago
        I was probably being a little pedantic, but 'vi' can mean: - The original 'vi' editor - The entire 'vi collection.' By that I mean vi + clones (i.e. vi, vim, elvis, etc). - The Vim editor (being the most popular vi clone) I'm never sure which people mean (though they usually just mean Vim), and I've come across many people that are confused (especially if they aren't too familiar with the Unix/Linux ecosystem and/or are Emacs users) but the inter-changeable usage of terms.

Yaggo 16y ago

I find that 90% little hard to buy. Based on my experience, I would guess they all (Mac/Linux/Windows) have roughly 1/3rd share, the trend being rising for Mac and downward for Windows. (Okay, my view may be Western centric.)

pmarin 16y ago

In the Unix culture the people who claim to use vi actually use vi + shell + hundreds of little software tools. If it have worked for 30 years perhaps you should give it a try.

endtime 16y ago
That's not a very good argument. Horse-drawn buggies worked for well over 30 years.
- sjs 16y ago
  TextMate is pretty popular and very productive, and it basically goes w/ the vi model. You extend it using external scripts, i.e. a bunch of little helper programs.
  - spacemanaki 16y ago
    This may not be historically accurate - ie not what Bill Joy originally intended, however I think of the "vi model" as the modal editing style which is what differentiates vi/vim for me.
- pbhjpbhj 16y ago
  >That's not a very good argument. Horse-drawn buggies worked for well over 30 years. I can't see how this is a good counter-argument either. They still do work, they run on renewable fuel, growing the fuel can be enhanced by the waste products of the horse. They're relatively low maintenance, the motor can be interchanged and easily used to drive other machines. Certainly at city driving speeds the buggy is going to compete quite well. Yes a car or other automobile is going to outperform a horse & buggy in many situations but there are other aspects that are wins for the horse & buggy. I'd be interested to see a running cost and efficiency comparison, shoeing horses is probably quite expensive nowadays with the dearth of blacksmiths/farriers.

gfodor 16y ago

> I use vi on a daily basis but just for very small text files, you can be so much more productive with more modern tools these days. If there was ever a sentence more finely crafted to stoke a religious editor war, I sure haven't seen it!

earnubs 16y ago

I use Windows on a daily basis because I work in a place that insists I do, like most large organisations. 90% usage, if true, doesn't indicate Windows is better or worse. (Given the choice I would do my day to day job on a Mac.)

btilly 16y ago

Yet, 90% of developers use Windows on a daily basis. Citation needed. My primary operating system has been Linux for the last decade. I don't think that I'm that unusual.

colomon 16y ago
"Use Windows" might to be the key here. I mean, my main development machine is a MacBook Pro, and I use headless Linux machines heavily. But I've always got a Windows machine booted up, and I've got Parallels running Windows on my MBP about half of the time.

jrockway 16y ago

But 90% of developers produce negative work with these tools. It's not very useful to see what tools people use to produce crap. It's interesting to see what tools people choose to optimize their own creative productivity. I use vi on a daily basis but just for very small text files, you can be so much more productive with more modern tools these days. Well, yes; vim.