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Chinese Scientists create process to turn Copper into 'Gold'

20 points by bjflanne 8y ago

awakeasleep 8y ago
If this works out it's bad news for gold bugs- 10% of global gold demand is for electronics manufacturing.
- pavel_lishin 8y ago
  I thought they primarily viewed gold as valuable because it's a medium of exchange that they believe will remain useful and stable in case of some sort of societal collapse? There probably won't be a lot of microelectronics getting manufactured in that scenario; gold prices dropping ought to be good for them now.
  - i_am_nomad 8y ago
    Hoarding gold when TSHTF is stupid anyway. The only commodities in that event will be booze, ammo, and women.
    - phyller 8y ago
      Personally, I would go for food, clothing, and shelter
      - pavel_lishin 8y ago
        Hard to trade shelter, but I see what you mean - but I think those are too low on the pyramid to truly be commodities. I'm thinking painkillers and antibiotics. Also, skills. If I were truly paranoid, instead of hoarding gold I'd be hoarding friendships with dentists and paramedics. An infected tooth can kill you, and make you wish it wouldn't take its sweet time doing it.
    - pavel_lishin 8y ago
      I realize that when TSHTF we're likely to revert at least somewhat from the lofty heights our civilization has soared to, but can we try to remember that people aren't things?
Phlarp 8y ago
This seems less like they turned copper into gold and more that they found a way to process copper so that it can replace gold in some industrial applications. I suppose that title wouldn't climb the frontpage as quickly.
cslarson 8y ago
[meta] Does this really need to be an amp link?
- kgwxd 8y ago
  Nothing ever does.
lambda 8y ago
Looks like this is the actual paper: http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/12/eaau3275 http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/12/eaau3275 Note that this is about replacing the use of gold as a catalyst for synthesizing alcohol from coal, not any electronics usage. I don't know enough about the science to say if this is promising for electronics usage or not.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
rrggrr 8y ago
They are NOT turning copper in to Gold. They're altering the properties of copper using a process a little like sputtering to make it resilient enough for use in applications where Gold is currently best utilized.
- bjflanne 8y ago
  I agree, that's why I said 'Gold' - it's not gold, it just is an attempt at replicating some of the best industrial aspects of it.
dmitrygr 8y ago
> The method developed by > Sun’s team can inject a > large amount of energy > into copper atoms and > made the electrons more > dense and stable, they > said. What is this pseudoscientific drivel? What the hell do they mean by "inject a large amount of energy" into atom? Can anybody actually explain what they created and what the properties of that material are?
- ghostly_s 8y ago
  I too wonder how you 'densify' an electron...
- gus_massa 8y ago
  <big IIUC warning> They are using sputtering that is a method that use a big spark to remove some Cooper atom from a surface and put the atoms in another surface. (You can use other metals instead of Cooper too.) The deposited Cooper atoms are not in the standard environment that they is use to be, like in a big Cooper metal block. So they attach to the surface in a weird configuration. In the new configuration, the elections don't have the usual distribution (like the electrons in the atoms of a metal Cooper bar). Anyway, the atoms of Cooper here don't have more or less electrons that usual, so they are still "metallic" with some definition. In the new rearrangement, the electrons are more densely packed. If you use the (wrong) Borh atom model, some of them have an orbit that is closer to the center than usual. With the correct quantum model, the idea is that some of the inner orbitals are usually empty, but here one of the electrons that is usually in an outer orbital falls into this usually empty orbital. (It's much more complicated, because the orbitals are not static and they are rearranged in each configuratio, and the orbitals are not a totally clear concept when you consider the quantum effect of correlation, but let's keep this simple.) So the new configuration is more compact, because one electron that is usually in an outer orbital is now in a inner orbital. The outer electron was easy to attack by other chemical substances. This gives Cooper some of it's usual properties. With the new configuration, it's more difficult to attack the electron, so the atoms have some (at least one) property that is similar to the properties of Gold. In particular, this property is useful to bound some Carbon atoms and help them react, so they can produce alcohol from carbon (and water and energy?). </big IIUC warning>
EricRiese 8y ago
While we're at it with the misleading titles, this one could have been "Sun's micro system turns copper into gold".

20 points by bjflanne 8y ago

awakeasleep 8y ago

If this works out it's bad news for gold bugs- 10% of global gold demand is for electronics manufacturing.

pavel_lishin 8y ago
I thought they primarily viewed gold as valuable because it's a medium of exchange that they believe will remain useful and stable in case of some sort of societal collapse? There probably won't be a lot of microelectronics getting manufactured in that scenario; gold prices dropping ought to be good for them now.
- i_am_nomad 8y ago
  Hoarding gold when TSHTF is stupid anyway. The only commodities in that event will be booze, ammo, and women.
  - phyller 8y ago
    Personally, I would go for food, clothing, and shelter
    - pavel_lishin 8y ago
      Hard to trade shelter, but I see what you mean - but I think those are too low on the pyramid to truly be commodities. I'm thinking painkillers and antibiotics. Also, skills. If I were truly paranoid, instead of hoarding gold I'd be hoarding friendships with dentists and paramedics. An infected tooth can kill you, and make you wish it wouldn't take its sweet time doing it.
  - pavel_lishin 8y ago
    I realize that when TSHTF we're likely to revert at least somewhat from the lofty heights our civilization has soared to, but can we try to remember that people aren't things?

Phlarp 8y ago

This seems less like they turned copper into gold and more that they found a way to process copper so that it can replace gold in some industrial applications. I suppose that title wouldn't climb the frontpage as quickly.

cslarson 8y ago

[meta] Does this really need to be an amp link?

kgwxd 8y ago
Nothing ever does.

lambda 8y ago

Looks like this is the actual paper: http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/12/eaau3275 http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/12/eaau3275 Note that this is about replacing the use of gold as a catalyst for synthesizing alcohol from coal, not any electronics usage. I don't know enough about the science to say if this is promising for electronics usage or not.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

rrggrr 8y ago

They are NOT turning copper in to Gold. They're altering the properties of copper using a process a little like sputtering to make it resilient enough for use in applications where Gold is currently best utilized.

bjflanne 8y ago
I agree, that's why I said 'Gold' - it's not gold, it just is an attempt at replicating some of the best industrial aspects of it.

dmitrygr 8y ago

> The method developed by > Sun’s team can inject a > large amount of energy > into copper atoms and > made the electrons more > dense and stable, they > said. What is this pseudoscientific drivel? What the hell do they mean by "inject a large amount of energy" into atom? Can anybody actually explain what they created and what the properties of that material are?

ghostly_s 8y ago
I too wonder how you 'densify' an electron...
gus_massa 8y ago
<big IIUC warning> They are using sputtering that is a method that use a big spark to remove some Cooper atom from a surface and put the atoms in another surface. (You can use other metals instead of Cooper too.) The deposited Cooper atoms are not in the standard environment that they is use to be, like in a big Cooper metal block. So they attach to the surface in a weird configuration. In the new configuration, the elections don't have the usual distribution (like the electrons in the atoms of a metal Cooper bar). Anyway, the atoms of Cooper here don't have more or less electrons that usual, so they are still "metallic" with some definition. In the new rearrangement, the electrons are more densely packed. If you use the (wrong) Borh atom model, some of them have an orbit that is closer to the center than usual. With the correct quantum model, the idea is that some of the inner orbitals are usually empty, but here one of the electrons that is usually in an outer orbital falls into this usually empty orbital. (It's much more complicated, because the orbitals are not static and they are rearranged in each configuratio, and the orbitals are not a totally clear concept when you consider the quantum effect of correlation, but let's keep this simple.) So the new configuration is more compact, because one electron that is usually in an outer orbital is now in a inner orbital. The outer electron was easy to attack by other chemical substances. This gives Cooper some of it's usual properties. With the new configuration, it's more difficult to attack the electron, so the atoms have some (at least one) property that is similar to the properties of Gold. In particular, this property is useful to bound some Carbon atoms and help them react, so they can produce alcohol from carbon (and water and energy?). </big IIUC warning>

EricRiese 8y ago

While we're at it with the misleading titles, this one could have been "Sun's micro system turns copper into gold".