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The article is very light on actual useful technical information, and just tries to sing blind praises to that one guy who politically helped China think about

The article is very light on actual useful technical information, and just tries to sing blind praises to that one guy who politically helped China think about electric vehicles. It is good for the world that growing china uses new electric vehicles instead of gas guzzlers. But, the article fails to corroborate how the Chinese would be able to even compete in the global market. True, the Chinese already has the Chinese market. Considering the way their government works, that's a easy act. Comparing indigenously built electric vehicles from China with globally acclaimed engineering prowess of Tesla is just silly at this point. Are the Chinese cars superior to a Tesla in any way? (No details) Are they better quality than Tesla in any way? (personally, I would be very skeptical) Are they safer? Teslas keep scoring the best in crash tests. I can't find any data on Chinese cars.. When they start competing genuinely on technology, perhaps they may warrant a serious comparison. Not now. They don't deserve it.

T3OU-736 8y ago
The article is reminiscent of propaganda pieces I recall reading in mid-80s in USSR newspapers about the supremacy of the communist system of governance. Not claiming that it is, in fact, propaganda, but the similarity is uncanny. FWITW: I sincerely hope that China's EV industry rises to world level of engineering, safety, and all other things attendant to that. Preferably with with knowledge and expertise not borne from forced IP transfers and other shady/nefarious things. L
- baybal2 8y ago
  Well, the primary point - that he was not a party member, is barely relevant now. Xi has completely reversed all advances towards civil governance of Jiang-Hu period. It is best to say, that now that picture being presented to the reader is the future that China has lost with coming of Xi, the revisionist clique, and other back-from-the-dead political fossils.
  - T3OU-736 8y ago
    Hrmmm. Fair points. So, to make sure I understand you, you argue that the article is a "this could have been so much more/better/buckets-of-awesome if it wasn't for the stifling effects if the current ruling apparatus"? (I paraphrase woth the sole goal of to making sure I understood correctly)
    - baybal2 8y ago
      true
      - ngcc_hk 8y ago
        And would it last
        baybal2 8y ago
        Who knows, unless somebody will forcefully push Xi and his groupies out of power, I don't see them losing power in any "natural" way. I also don't see anybody inside the party who simply have that type of character needed for political knife fighting. No such people left.
baybal2 8y ago
If you want to have a car with any power to weight ratio you desire, and have unlimited budget - Teslas shine there. But for commuter boxes on wheels, I see no competitor coming anywhere near to BYD-Donfeng budget EV duopoly
bjelkeman-again 8y ago
We used to laugh at “Made in Japan.” Then they became really good at consumer hardware (cameras, music, cars, TVs). China manufactures some of the most sophisticated hardware in the world (smartphones, tablets etc). They do learn and iterate fast. The one thing that makes me wonder if they can make really good electric cars is the software side. Japan fell from the throne in consumer entertainment hardware as they didn’t do software well. They still don’t. I think electric cars is a lot about software and batteries. Can China do really reliable, trustworthy, user friendly software? Without it I predict their cars will struggle.
- lern_too_spel 8y ago
  For a more recent example, products made in Korea were considered cheap and low quality through the 1990s. Then Lucky-Goldstar became LG, and Hyundai introduced the ten year powertrain warranty.
- logicchains 8y ago
  >Can China do really reliable, trustworthy, user friendly software? You should try WeChat, the most popular Chinese chat application. Apart from the legally-mandated spying, it's super user-friendly, and quite lightweight compared to the likes of MSN Messenger, Skype, Facebook messenger and Slack (uses only 10s of MBs of ram).
  - maratd 8y ago
    The kind of software the parent was alluding to is the type that tightly integrates with hardware. It's an order of magnitude more difficult to pull off, since the two must work well together in concert.
  - hackerman12345 8y ago
    You're comparing it to old junk. Whatsapp is far superior to FB Messenger. Discord is far superior to Skype, etc.
    - logicchains 8y ago
shanghaiaway 8y ago
"Comparing indigenously built electric vehicles from China with globally acclaimed engineering prowess of Tesla is just silly at this point. Are the Chinese cars superior to a Tesla in any way? (No details) Are they better quality than Tesla in any way? (personally, I would be very skeptical)" This forum needs less racism and racists (you). As you say yourself, you know nothing about Chinese car companies capabilities. Yet at the same time you assume that they are far below the international standard. That is prejudice based on race and culture.
- bobthepanda 8y ago
  Is it racism? If we were to assume that the electric cars were of similar quality to the petrol and diesel cars, then it’s very clear that Chinese automakers aren’t very good. And that isn’t the worst assumption to be making. Consider that Albuquerque, NM already had to reject BYD electric buses because they were not performing as advertised. https://insideevs.com/albuquerque-reject-and-return-byd-electric-buses/amp/ https://insideevs.com/albuquerque-reject-and-return-byd-elec...
  - shanghaiaway 8y ago
    Consider that BYD electric buses are #1 worldwide.
    - jryle70 8y ago
      #1 in terms of volume and revenue, sure I believe so, but quality? who are #2 or #3? The buses in questions are claimed to be not up to par. Credit to China for taking the lead in pushing EV -- as opposed to the current US administration. However click-bait title such as "leapfrog" is misleading. Pointing that out isn't racism. Not sure why you need to hide behind "racism" when facing criticism.
      - shanghaiaway 8y ago
        BYD is #1 in quality as well. Leapfrog here is a term used to describe a fact. Chinese companies have leapfrogged ICE manufacturers in EV.
bluedino 8y ago
Guess what? Other countries make things that are better quality, safer, superior to Chinese products. However, the Chinese alternatives are cheaper, and in most markets that’s all that matters. They just need to make a “good enough” electric car that’s cheap, and they’re all set.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
starbeast 8y ago
>Are the Chinese cars superior to a Tesla in any way? (No details) You could question if it is accurate for sure, but from this comment it appears that you have not even read the very first paragraph of the article.
- reacharavindh 8y ago
  Dont know what gave you that impression. I read the whole article. Here are the first paragraphs you refer to. Where does it tell the chinese cars are in any way superior to Tesla technically? "At this year’s Beijing Auto Show, a retired Chinese bureaucrat bent down to run his hands over the hood of a sleek sports coupe billed as the world’s fastest battery-powered car, and he smiled like a proud father. In a way, that’s exactly what he was. Two decades earlier, Wan Gang persuaded China’s State Council to throw its vast power behind the risky, unproven technology of electric cars. He advocated using government money, including subsidies, to help create a world champion industry that would surpass Western automakers. That coupe he was admiring at the April auto show? It was built by homegrown NIO Inc. Elon Musk made a name for himself promoting new-energy vehicles, but when the history of the electric car is finally written, Wan may loom larger. Chinese drivers buy one of every two EVs sold, and the global auto industry is pivoting to adjust. It’s a revolution fomented by Wan, a former minister of science and technology whose achievements are even more extraordinary when you consider that he never joined the Chinese Communist Party. "
  - starbeast 8y ago
    Hang on, just checking one thing so that I don't think either of us is going mad. Are you including the roadster that was sent into space as still being a battery powered car by any chance?

T3OU-736 8y ago

The article is reminiscent of propaganda pieces I recall reading in mid-80s in USSR newspapers about the supremacy of the communist system of governance. Not claiming that it is, in fact, propaganda, but the similarity is uncanny. FWITW: I sincerely hope that China's EV industry rises to world level of engineering, safety, and all other things attendant to that. Preferably with with knowledge and expertise not borne from forced IP transfers and other shady/nefarious things. L

baybal2 8y ago
Well, the primary point - that he was not a party member, is barely relevant now. Xi has completely reversed all advances towards civil governance of Jiang-Hu period. It is best to say, that now that picture being presented to the reader is the future that China has lost with coming of Xi, the revisionist clique, and other back-from-the-dead political fossils.
- T3OU-736 8y ago
  Hrmmm. Fair points. So, to make sure I understand you, you argue that the article is a "this could have been so much more/better/buckets-of-awesome if it wasn't for the stifling effects if the current ruling apparatus"? (I paraphrase woth the sole goal of to making sure I understood correctly)
  - baybal2 8y ago
    true
    - ngcc_hk 8y ago
      And would it last
      - baybal2 8y ago
        Who knows, unless somebody will forcefully push Xi and his groupies out of power, I don't see them losing power in any "natural" way. I also don't see anybody inside the party who simply have that type of character needed for political knife fighting. No such people left.

baybal2 8y ago

If you want to have a car with any power to weight ratio you desire, and have unlimited budget - Teslas shine there. But for commuter boxes on wheels, I see no competitor coming anywhere near to BYD-Donfeng budget EV duopoly

bjelkeman-again 8y ago

We used to laugh at “Made in Japan.” Then they became really good at consumer hardware (cameras, music, cars, TVs). China manufactures some of the most sophisticated hardware in the world (smartphones, tablets etc). They do learn and iterate fast. The one thing that makes me wonder if they can make really good electric cars is the software side. Japan fell from the throne in consumer entertainment hardware as they didn’t do software well. They still don’t. I think electric cars is a lot about software and batteries. Can China do really reliable, trustworthy, user friendly software? Without it I predict their cars will struggle.

lern_too_spel 8y ago
For a more recent example, products made in Korea were considered cheap and low quality through the 1990s. Then Lucky-Goldstar became LG, and Hyundai introduced the ten year powertrain warranty.
logicchains 8y ago
>Can China do really reliable, trustworthy, user friendly software? You should try WeChat, the most popular Chinese chat application. Apart from the legally-mandated spying, it's super user-friendly, and quite lightweight compared to the likes of MSN Messenger, Skype, Facebook messenger and Slack (uses only 10s of MBs of ram).
- maratd 8y ago
  The kind of software the parent was alluding to is the type that tightly integrates with hardware. It's an order of magnitude more difficult to pull off, since the two must work well together in concert.
- hackerman12345 8y ago
  You're comparing it to old junk. Whatsapp is far superior to FB Messenger. Discord is far superior to Skype, etc.
  - logicchains 8y ago

shanghaiaway 8y ago

"Comparing indigenously built electric vehicles from China with globally acclaimed engineering prowess of Tesla is just silly at this point. Are the Chinese cars superior to a Tesla in any way? (No details) Are they better quality than Tesla in any way? (personally, I would be very skeptical)" This forum needs less racism and racists (you). As you say yourself, you know nothing about Chinese car companies capabilities. Yet at the same time you assume that they are far below the international standard. That is prejudice based on race and culture.

bobthepanda 8y ago
Is it racism? If we were to assume that the electric cars were of similar quality to the petrol and diesel cars, then it’s very clear that Chinese automakers aren’t very good. And that isn’t the worst assumption to be making. Consider that Albuquerque, NM already had to reject BYD electric buses because they were not performing as advertised. https://insideevs.com/albuquerque-reject-and-return-byd-electric-buses/amp/ https://insideevs.com/albuquerque-reject-and-return-byd-elec...
- shanghaiaway 8y ago
  Consider that BYD electric buses are #1 worldwide.
  - jryle70 8y ago
    #1 in terms of volume and revenue, sure I believe so, but quality? who are #2 or #3? The buses in questions are claimed to be not up to par. Credit to China for taking the lead in pushing EV -- as opposed to the current US administration. However click-bait title such as "leapfrog" is misleading. Pointing that out isn't racism. Not sure why you need to hide behind "racism" when facing criticism.
    - shanghaiaway 8y ago
      BYD is #1 in quality as well. Leapfrog here is a term used to describe a fact. Chinese companies have leapfrogged ICE manufacturers in EV.

bluedino 8y ago

Guess what? Other countries make things that are better quality, safer, superior to Chinese products. However, the Chinese alternatives are cheaper, and in most markets that’s all that matters. They just need to make a “good enough” electric car that’s cheap, and they’re all set.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

starbeast 8y ago

>Are the Chinese cars superior to a Tesla in any way? (No details) You could question if it is accurate for sure, but from this comment it appears that you have not even read the very first paragraph of the article.

reacharavindh 8y ago
Dont know what gave you that impression. I read the whole article. Here are the first paragraphs you refer to. Where does it tell the chinese cars are in any way superior to Tesla technically? "At this year’s Beijing Auto Show, a retired Chinese bureaucrat bent down to run his hands over the hood of a sleek sports coupe billed as the world’s fastest battery-powered car, and he smiled like a proud father. In a way, that’s exactly what he was. Two decades earlier, Wan Gang persuaded China’s State Council to throw its vast power behind the risky, unproven technology of electric cars. He advocated using government money, including subsidies, to help create a world champion industry that would surpass Western automakers. That coupe he was admiring at the April auto show? It was built by homegrown NIO Inc. Elon Musk made a name for himself promoting new-energy vehicles, but when the history of the electric car is finally written, Wan may loom larger. Chinese drivers buy one of every two EVs sold, and the global auto industry is pivoting to adjust. It’s a revolution fomented by Wan, a former minister of science and technology whose achievements are even more extraordinary when you consider that he never joined the Chinese Communist Party. "
- starbeast 8y ago
  Hang on, just checking one thing so that I don't think either of us is going mad. Are you including the roadster that was sent into space as still being a battery powered car by any chance?