6 ms·

The Matrix.org 2018 year in review

113 points by Arathorn 8y ago

gfodor 8y ago
Matrix is a really exciting project. It's really great that an open and decentralize alternative has a viable shot to mainstream adoption for this generation of communication platforms -- something that never materialized in Facebook's rise to dominance. One thing about this roadmap post that is confusing to me is that the mobile client work, specifically iOS, seems under-prioritized. I'm assuming the focus on UX the last half of the year has been intended to put matrix in a position to compete with the mainstream apps for adoption, so having solid mobile UX seems just as important. Is there a reason matrix expects users to be desktop-centric or that the mobile UX is already good enough to compete with Slack, Discord, etc?
- Arathorn 8y ago
  The main reason for mobile being underprioritised is that many of the mobile devs (who are based in Rennes in France) are doubletiming with helping the French government project and so are quite stretched for time. Also, for better or worse, we have entirely separate codebases currently on Web, iOS and Android. The reason we do this is to ensure that other app developers can use the same proper native matrix SDK in their apps rather than be forced to use a device abstraction approach like React Native. However, it means that typically the web SDK leads the way (as it’s the easiest test bed for new features, and several of the core spec team work on Riot/Web, so new stuff happens there). However, we’re starting to see the balance shift: the new Android SDK and app is more advanced than the JS SDK, and we might even experiment with using Kotlin Native as a way to share that code to other platforms. Eitherway: we’re aware that mobile needs more love and investment and we’re trying to fix it :)
  - solarkraft 8y ago
    > ensure that other app developers can use the same proper native matrix SDK in their apps rather than be forced to use a device abstraction approach like React Native Thank you!
    - Arathorn 8y ago
      :) just hope it's worth the tripled effort of us having to build and maintain matrix-{react,js}-sdk, matrix-ios-sdk and matrix-android-sdk versus writing once and running everywhere... ;)
  - gfodor 8y ago
    That makes sense, thanks for the additional info!
- stupidbird 8y ago
  Unless Apple drags their feet with PWA implementation a native iOS app might not be needed?
  - Arathorn 8y ago
    chat clients are surprisingly heavy, and i suspect tha PWAs will never perform as well as a handcrafted native app. But we shall see!
Arathorn 8y ago
This is a massive post (I didn’t have time to write a short one so I wrote a long one), but there’s some vital stuff buried in it for those interested in Matrix, including: * Details for testing the redesign of Riot (https://riot.im/experimental https://riot.im/experimental) * A teaser of fan-out routing * The potential roadmap options for 2019 * The endgame for E2E encryption, Matrix 1.0 and a whole lot more. Any questions welcome :)
- shmerl 8y ago
  For some reason changing color theme isn't working in the experimental client (Firefox 65.0b6 / Linux).
  - Arathorn 8y ago
    that’s because the redesigned skin doesn’t (yet) implement tinting - it simply doesn’t have the same opinionated accent colour (default green) of legacy Riot.
- mimi89999 8y ago
  Are there any plans for adding new transport protocols (for c2s and s2s communication other than HTTP)? I didn't see Fractal being mentioned. IIRX they have received some founding from Puri.sm recently. Sorry if I messed it as I didn't read the entire article.
  - Arathorn 8y ago
    The article just discusses what the core team has been up to - it deliberately skips the wider community (for better or worse). The youtube video at the end shows an alternative C2S and S2S transport being used - similar to the one described at https://fosdem.org/2019/schedule/event/matrix/ https://fosdem.org/2019/schedule/event/matrix/. Atm it's experimental and only works in closed networks and isn't yet released, but the plan is to add it as an official alt transport once we've got it working nicely in open networks. It's about 30-50x more bandwidth efficient than the default HTTP/1.1+TLS+JSON transport.
regaleira 8y ago
Neo has poweres in the real world! , the theory about the "WIRLESS" Conection is just lame. They should go deep with it, they are onfact carecters inside a screen for us... you see where I'm getting... or we can just assume that the real world in wich we all areis Just a simulation. Much MORE INTERESTING
vertex-four 8y ago
What this post doesn’t mention is the failure to tackle a fairly significant problem[0] leading to Matrix bridges being banned from at least one major irc network (hackint) and a number of irc channels elsewhere. If you were thinking of using Matrix because you thought it might allow you to access all your old chat systems as well, think again. [0] The Matrix bridge model fundamentally doesn’t map to how IRC works in reality, and causes massive headaches for IRC network and channel operators.
- floatboth 8y ago
  Matrix works great with Freenode. What exactly is the problem? How does it not map? I authenticated with my freenode nick/password, and it's acting as a regular bouncer pretty much…
  - vertex-four 8y ago
    There’s a number of larger channels which have banned Matrix users, and various smaller channels I’m in have been considering banning them due to the privacy concerns of Matrix.org (based in the U.K., iirc, and potentially subject to an easy court order requiring them to release their data) keeping a full, eternal log of all communications in any irc channel where a Matrix user has joined. Freenode is also not the entirety of IRC.
    - Arathorn 8y ago
      The main reason why some channels have banned Matrix in the past was instability in the bridge causing occasional netsplit style behaviour where all the Matrix users would bulk-part and bulk-join. Since stability was fixed earlier this year, it should no longer be a concern. In terms of privacy concerns: yes, Matrix.org is currently provided by a UK legal entity, just as many IRC servers are too. But if you want privacy from a malicious server admin or government or whoever then you should be using end-to-end encryption, and you shouldn't be using IRC. I'm not sure the legal jurisdiction makes much difference (unless the UK outlaws E2E, which then becomes a whole new can of worms). If you're worried about the fact that Matrix rooms contain scrollback, then it's (again) unfortunate that nobody has cared enough about this to file a bug on https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/issues https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/issues to request configurable retention per bridge. Meanwhile, https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/issues/447 https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/issues/447 i s the general spec issue if you'd like to upvote or comment on it. But in the end, Matrix is FOSS, and we kinda hope that folks will contribute stuff like this that we simply haven't got to yet.
xvilka 8y ago
So far the biggest problem in my opinion is lack of native clients (and servers). The official client is Electron-based, and official server is written in Python. It might be good for prototyping, but hardly convenient for real users due to speed and memory constraints. I hope they will focus more on Dendrite[1] (server in Go) and Nheko[2] (client in Qt) instead of wasting time with Electron. [1] https://github.com/matrix-org/dendrite https://github.com/matrix-org/dendrite [2] https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/nheko.html https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/nheko.html
- Evidlo 8y ago
  Nheko is not currently maintained. See Fractal https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/fractal https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/fractal.
  - xvilka 8y ago
    See? They didn't even update the information on their site regarding this. Thanks for the link!
  - mixedCase 8y ago
    That is unfortunately a GNOME application, meaning it uses the Gtk and follows GNOME's HIG thus looking extremely out of place on Windows and MacOS and somewhat out of place on other Linux desktops (assuming Gtk3+ is themed to match the rest of the system, which doesn't help it fit very well anyway). While I'm sure it's a great option for people using GNOME-based desktops, I don't think it'd be a good idea to bet on Fractal as the Matrix native client, I don't think its authors see it that way either.
stevenicr 8y ago
Still excited about matrix and riot and similar... Still need to have methods for moderators and admins to have permissions to view details about other people in the chat rooms. Things like ip address, server they are federated from(?), client used, etc. Having run public chat rooms for more than a decade, I've found the need to give some people moderator powers to inspect suspicious users, log info, and ban via subnets and cidr being very important to lessen the flow of many issues. It only takes one troll to ruin your chat room, and that troll can connect from dozens of ips from dozens of vpns in little time. The more info we can provide to a few trusted people, the easier it is to detect these things and ban people / networks. I know this is not a magic pill to fix all the problems with all the people. A combo method with things like having regular users move to a room that takes a certain level to join, and only gaining access to those levels if you've been a known member for x months for example can make a big difference in situations like that as well. Other moderation tools would be nice too, but without the ip info and such the others are moot in my experiences.
- Arathorn 8y ago
  We do have this API already actually: https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/blob/master/docs/admin_api/user_admin_api.rst https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/blob/master/docs/admin..., but it needs UI hooked up to it (and it should probably be in the spec rather than synapse-specific). Agreed that we need more moderation toolsnin general though; we’re working on it.
detaro 8y ago
Is there a working matrix-IRC bridge for the other way around than usual - to use an IRC client with Matrix?
- Arathorn 8y ago
  there have been three attempts at this: PTO, matrix-ircd and most recently https://github.com/nilsding/AgentSmith https://github.com/nilsding/AgentSmith. PTO is abandoned; matrix-ircd (https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-ircd https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-ircd) works but needs contributions and polish to be useful; AgentSmith is brand new and looks promising but haven’t tried it.

113 points by Arathorn 8y ago

Matrix is a really exciting project. It's really great that an open and decentralize alternative has a viable shot to mainstream adoption for this generation of communication platforms -- something that never materialized in Facebook's rise to dominance. One thing about this roadmap post that is confusing to me is that the mobile client work, specifically iOS, seems under-prioritized. I'm assuming the focus on UX the last half of the year has been intended to put matrix in a position to compete with the mainstream apps for adoption, so having solid mobile UX seems just as important. Is there a reason matrix expects users to be desktop-centric or that the mobile UX is already good enough to compete with Slack, Discord, etc?

Arathorn 8y ago
The main reason for mobile being underprioritised is that many of the mobile devs (who are based in Rennes in France) are doubletiming with helping the French government project and so are quite stretched for time. Also, for better or worse, we have entirely separate codebases currently on Web, iOS and Android. The reason we do this is to ensure that other app developers can use the same proper native matrix SDK in their apps rather than be forced to use a device abstraction approach like React Native. However, it means that typically the web SDK leads the way (as it’s the easiest test bed for new features, and several of the core spec team work on Riot/Web, so new stuff happens there). However, we’re starting to see the balance shift: the new Android SDK and app is more advanced than the JS SDK, and we might even experiment with using Kotlin Native as a way to share that code to other platforms. Eitherway: we’re aware that mobile needs more love and investment and we’re trying to fix it :)
- solarkraft 8y ago
  > ensure that other app developers can use the same proper native matrix SDK in their apps rather than be forced to use a device abstraction approach like React Native Thank you!
  - Arathorn 8y ago
    :) just hope it's worth the tripled effort of us having to build and maintain matrix-{react,js}-sdk, matrix-ios-sdk and matrix-android-sdk versus writing once and running everywhere... ;)
- gfodor 8y ago
  That makes sense, thanks for the additional info!
stupidbird 8y ago
Unless Apple drags their feet with PWA implementation a native iOS app might not be needed?
- Arathorn 8y ago
  chat clients are surprisingly heavy, and i suspect tha PWAs will never perform as well as a handcrafted native app. But we shall see!

Arathorn 8y ago

This is a massive post (I didn’t have time to write a short one so I wrote a long one), but there’s some vital stuff buried in it for those interested in Matrix, including: * Details for testing the redesign of Riot (https://riot.im/experimental https://riot.im/experimental) * A teaser of fan-out routing * The potential roadmap options for 2019 * The endgame for E2E encryption, Matrix 1.0 and a whole lot more. Any questions welcome :)

shmerl 8y ago
For some reason changing color theme isn't working in the experimental client (Firefox 65.0b6 / Linux).
- Arathorn 8y ago
  that’s because the redesigned skin doesn’t (yet) implement tinting - it simply doesn’t have the same opinionated accent colour (default green) of legacy Riot.
mimi89999 8y ago
Are there any plans for adding new transport protocols (for c2s and s2s communication other than HTTP)? I didn't see Fractal being mentioned. IIRX they have received some founding from Puri.sm recently. Sorry if I messed it as I didn't read the entire article.
- Arathorn 8y ago
  The article just discusses what the core team has been up to - it deliberately skips the wider community (for better or worse). The youtube video at the end shows an alternative C2S and S2S transport being used - similar to the one described at https://fosdem.org/2019/schedule/event/matrix/ https://fosdem.org/2019/schedule/event/matrix/. Atm it's experimental and only works in closed networks and isn't yet released, but the plan is to add it as an official alt transport once we've got it working nicely in open networks. It's about 30-50x more bandwidth efficient than the default HTTP/1.1+TLS+JSON transport.

regaleira 8y ago

Neo has poweres in the real world! , the theory about the "WIRLESS" Conection is just lame. They should go deep with it, they are onfact carecters inside a screen for us... you see where I'm getting... or we can just assume that the real world in wich we all areis Just a simulation. Much MORE INTERESTING

vertex-four 8y ago

What this post doesn’t mention is the failure to tackle a fairly significant problem[0] leading to Matrix bridges being banned from at least one major irc network (hackint) and a number of irc channels elsewhere. If you were thinking of using Matrix because you thought it might allow you to access all your old chat systems as well, think again. [0] The Matrix bridge model fundamentally doesn’t map to how IRC works in reality, and causes massive headaches for IRC network and channel operators.

floatboth 8y ago
Matrix works great with Freenode. What exactly is the problem? How does it not map? I authenticated with my freenode nick/password, and it's acting as a regular bouncer pretty much…
- vertex-four 8y ago
  There’s a number of larger channels which have banned Matrix users, and various smaller channels I’m in have been considering banning them due to the privacy concerns of Matrix.org (based in the U.K., iirc, and potentially subject to an easy court order requiring them to release their data) keeping a full, eternal log of all communications in any irc channel where a Matrix user has joined. Freenode is also not the entirety of IRC.
  - Arathorn 8y ago
    The main reason why some channels have banned Matrix in the past was instability in the bridge causing occasional netsplit style behaviour where all the Matrix users would bulk-part and bulk-join. Since stability was fixed earlier this year, it should no longer be a concern. In terms of privacy concerns: yes, Matrix.org is currently provided by a UK legal entity, just as many IRC servers are too. But if you want privacy from a malicious server admin or government or whoever then you should be using end-to-end encryption, and you shouldn't be using IRC. I'm not sure the legal jurisdiction makes much difference (unless the UK outlaws E2E, which then becomes a whole new can of worms). If you're worried about the fact that Matrix rooms contain scrollback, then it's (again) unfortunate that nobody has cared enough about this to file a bug on https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/issues https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/issues to request configurable retention per bridge. Meanwhile, https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/issues/447 https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/issues/447 i s the general spec issue if you'd like to upvote or comment on it. But in the end, Matrix is FOSS, and we kinda hope that folks will contribute stuff like this that we simply haven't got to yet.

xvilka 8y ago

So far the biggest problem in my opinion is lack of native clients (and servers). The official client is Electron-based, and official server is written in Python. It might be good for prototyping, but hardly convenient for real users due to speed and memory constraints. I hope they will focus more on Dendrite[1] (server in Go) and Nheko[2] (client in Qt) instead of wasting time with Electron. [1] https://github.com/matrix-org/dendrite https://github.com/matrix-org/dendrite [2] https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/nheko.html https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/nheko.html

Evidlo 8y ago
Nheko is not currently maintained. See Fractal https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/fractal https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/fractal.
- xvilka 8y ago
  See? They didn't even update the information on their site regarding this. Thanks for the link!
- mixedCase 8y ago
  That is unfortunately a GNOME application, meaning it uses the Gtk and follows GNOME's HIG thus looking extremely out of place on Windows and MacOS and somewhat out of place on other Linux desktops (assuming Gtk3+ is themed to match the rest of the system, which doesn't help it fit very well anyway). While I'm sure it's a great option for people using GNOME-based desktops, I don't think it'd be a good idea to bet on Fractal as the Matrix native client, I don't think its authors see it that way either.

stevenicr 8y ago

Still excited about matrix and riot and similar... Still need to have methods for moderators and admins to have permissions to view details about other people in the chat rooms. Things like ip address, server they are federated from(?), client used, etc. Having run public chat rooms for more than a decade, I've found the need to give some people moderator powers to inspect suspicious users, log info, and ban via subnets and cidr being very important to lessen the flow of many issues. It only takes one troll to ruin your chat room, and that troll can connect from dozens of ips from dozens of vpns in little time. The more info we can provide to a few trusted people, the easier it is to detect these things and ban people / networks. I know this is not a magic pill to fix all the problems with all the people. A combo method with things like having regular users move to a room that takes a certain level to join, and only gaining access to those levels if you've been a known member for x months for example can make a big difference in situations like that as well. Other moderation tools would be nice too, but without the ip info and such the others are moot in my experiences.

Arathorn 8y ago
We do have this API already actually: https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/blob/master/docs/admin_api/user_admin_api.rst https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/blob/master/docs/admin..., but it needs UI hooked up to it (and it should probably be in the spec rather than synapse-specific). Agreed that we need more moderation toolsnin general though; we’re working on it.

detaro 8y ago

Is there a working matrix-IRC bridge for the other way around than usual - to use an IRC client with Matrix?

Arathorn 8y ago
there have been three attempts at this: PTO, matrix-ircd and most recently https://github.com/nilsding/AgentSmith https://github.com/nilsding/AgentSmith. PTO is abandoned; matrix-ircd (https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-ircd https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-ircd) works but needs contributions and polish to be useful; AgentSmith is brand new and looks promising but haven’t tried it.