9 ms·

UK police release airport drone suspects, admit there may not have been drones

71 points by JackPoach 8y ago

imron 8y ago
And yet, from the article: "investigators do have more to work with after they recovered a fallen and damaged drone from the north side of the airport."
- PavlovsCat 8y ago
  Which technically can mean a lot of things, that drone could have been there for a while, and just been found when they combed everything for a drone.
  - redcalx 8y ago
    Indeed. If they can't link it to anyone or even any time, then it can't be used as evidence. Although it may be a fruitful line of enquiry if was one of the problem drones from last week. E.g. tracing sale of parts from serial numbers.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
Edd314159 8y ago
> The suggestion there may not have been any drones at Gatwick Airport was a "miscommunication by police", a government source has told the BBC. > During a conference call between ministers, chaired by Transport Secretary Chris Grayling, it was agreed the 67 drone sightings were legitimate. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46670714 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46670714) As much as "it was all a false alarm" would make a killer headline (and clearly has, even in speculation), it doesn't seem that anyone actually believes that. Just a poor choice of works.
- wrinkl3 8y ago
  Yes, whoever provided that particular soundbite really shouldn't be in charge of public communication.
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  The Police in the UK often say the most ludicrous things in statements, and the basic public speaking skills of the people they choose to put out is often very limited. They always look like they're caught in the headlights while trying to sweatily stumble through reading some words off a page. I'm not sure what institutionally causes this, but it must be something causing it as it's always the same. Remember when recently a senior Police officer in a statement just decided to call some extremely serious allegations they were looking into 'true' as if they had already had the trial and preempting the whole judicial process? I can't understand how you can accidentally 'misspeak' like that.
  - C1sc0cat 8y ago
    They don't hire the brightest - recently I heard a former senior ex met natsec policeman who presented as very very stupid individual I would not trust to investigate a missing kitten. There was also the scandal where a v senior copper on the Cyber side was found cheating.
    - tantalor 8y ago
      Cheating? At what?
      - C1sc0cat 8y ago
        Exam to join the Police Central e-Crime Unit (PCeU), https://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/19/pceu_tribunal/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/19/pceu_tribunal/
    - bgeeek 8y ago
      To be fair, and I've come across this so many times, you can be good at your job and still have awful presentation skills. I don't think we get taught things like this in the UK and/or get practise in it, unlike other countries.
tezza 8y ago
This country ( UK ) is highly prone to mass psychosis. Not really ascribing anything negative there, just an observation. A few winters ago there was minute by minute updates on Bird Flu. The press was covering swans and ducks found dead on the ground. Each individual fowl corpse was covered in breathless detail amongst infographics and timelines The government was manoeuvred into buying close to a billion pounds of Tamiflu treatment. Some of that was returned, but £500m wasn’t (thanks to commentators below ) Tamiflu killed more people that the H5N1 So may more examples beyond this
- matthewmacleod 8y ago
  This is a terrible, terrible example. Tamiflu is not a vaccine, it’s a treatment. It’s use is recommended in some cases according to clinical best practices, and purchases were not due to the government being “manoeuvred”. And further, the fact that an outbreak didn’t happen doesn’t mean that planning for an outbreak is bad.
- yangyang 8y ago
  Under £500m. Still a huge amount but considerably less than £9b. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-26954482 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-26954482
- DanBC 8y ago
  > The government was manoeuvred into buying £9 billion pounds of Tamiflu vaccine. £9bn was about the total prescription medication budget at the time, so I think you've gone wrong somewhere.
  - tezza 8y ago
    corrected above.
  - starbeast 8y ago
    The seasonal mass psychosis must be spreading.
  - easytiger 8y ago
merricksb 8y ago
Earlier discussion after release of suspects yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18745624 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18745624
barry0079 8y ago
Not before plastering the faces of an innocent couple nationwide. I think they deserve reparation for this.
- jackweirdy 8y ago
  As far as we know it wasn't the police who reported their names and addresses. Police typically don't release names until someone is charged. Newspapers reported their names, usually that happens off the back of neighbours tipping off the papers for cash about the police knocking on doors.
  - C1sc0cat 8y ago
    Or an envelope of cash to a bent copper
    - eponeponepon 8y ago
      Bent coppers charge a lot. The guy two doors down probably won't stand to lose his job, so will like as not spill the beans for a pint.
  - dazc 8y ago
    'Police typically don't release names until someone is charged.' Various celebrities could argue otherwise.
    - teh_klev 8y ago
      Yep, the Cliff Richard raid is a prime example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Richard#2014:_Property_search,_investigation_and_BBC_litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Richard#2014:_Property_s...
- redcalx 8y ago
  The paper's that did that made clearly libellous claims - because the couple had not yet been charged with an offence when their names were published. Those paper's can now expect libel claims against them, although given the clear breach of libel law I expect they will wish to settle out of court rather than take on the extra expense of a court case they can't win.
beerlord 8y ago
The suggestion is that the airports were under major terrorism threat, which is why the army was involved. They didn't say this to avoid spooking the public, and having a whole lot of people cancel their flights and holidays (plus it would have been major fuel for the Yellow Vests).
- benj111 8y ago
  The yellow vests, as in the protests in France? What's that got to do with drones in the UK???
  - DanBC 8y ago
    There are some very small protests in the UK from people wearing Yellow Vests. These appear to be from Brexit supporters. Here's a video of some people blocking a bridge, causing delay to an ambo: https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1073558833878962176 https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/10735588338789621...
    - benj111 8y ago
      So Brexit supporters are copying French fuel protesters even though we have a different fuel duty regime that isn't set by Europe, and they want to leave Europe (and by extension, France) anyway? That makes perfect sense.
      - jacquesm 8y ago
        For a real head twister: the various 'exit' and 'anti-eu' groups have tried to unite EU wide... That one still has me wondering if they realize what they are doing.
        benj111 8y ago
        So they've formed a.... union?
bigwheeler 8y ago
I just still can’t wrap my head around the fact that in 2018, with a camera attached to every waking persons hand (and some sleeping people too), how is it that there is not a single public photo or video published of this specific drone. Kind of reminds me of when I found out that tipping cows wasn’t a real thing...
- huffmsa 8y ago
  Funny how UFO reports have generally decreased in the last decade. Pics or it didn't happen
  - TomGullen 8y ago
    Well that's because they are less bold now people have better cameras :P
- jsjohnst 8y ago
  > I just still can’t wrap my head around the fact that in 2018, with a camera attached to every waking persons hand (and some sleeping people too), how is it that there is not a single public photo or video published of this specific drone. I’ve been in many debates about this in the drone flying community (and with friends who know me and how much I fly) and I keep coming back to this point. I’d even take a blurry “UFO sighting” photo under consideration, but even that doesn’t exist. Virtually every single “close call with a plane” has thankfully (thankfully both for the safety of passengers and for other UAV pilots who would be impacted by the irresponsible party’s actions) been proven later to not have been a drone. PS, cow tipping is real (as in its “possible”, not that folks are successful), but it’s much harder than folks realize (I grew up in a farm state and have seen it done once with multiple big guys involved, but also seen many a drunken fool fall on their face trying too).
  - huffmsa 8y ago
    Even asleep, a one ton animal is hard to move
Udik 8y ago
Could it have been a mass psychosis? First a real drone sighting and the closure of the airport; then when the news spread, tens of people reported more sightings. There are two densely populated towns on both sides of Gatwick airport, within a couple of kms from the runways. After the first sighting, any other within that range must have been considered a risk worth closing the airport for. A drone is just a black dot in the sky, I wouldn't be surprised by false reports.
alt_f4 8y ago
They also claimed these drones were "industrial specification". How did they determine that when they've never seen them? There should be some sort of penalty for blatantly lying to the public, even if it is done to save face about your incompetence.
- Angostura 8y ago
  Who was "they" can you find the on-the-record comment that suggested this?
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    The Police literally said 'industrial specification' on their own Twitter feed. https://twitter.com/sussex_police/status/1075723025713127424 https://twitter.com/sussex_police/status/1075723025713127424
  - wyck 8y ago
    The U.K. papers had diagrams of this said drone, including speculation of the actual model, cost($8k+) , I even saw a diagram of a superimposition of the drone over a airplane engine to show the relative size. They also mentioned the drone must have been hacked to bypass the built-in blackout software for airports.
- soneil 8y ago
  Everything I’ve read (which is not exhaustive) put that as speculation based on the time spent aloft. Behaviour-based but not evidence-based.
monochromatic 8y ago
https://frinkiac.com/meme/S08E16/1219284.jpg?b64lines=VEhBVCdTIFNPTUUgR09PRApXT1JLLCBMT1Uu https://frinkiac.com/meme/S08E16/1219284.jpg?b64lines=VEhBVC...
jacquesm 8y ago
So how was the link between non-existing drones and a very specific couple made?
rasz 8y ago
last time it turned out to be a shopping bag https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/21/drone-believed-to-have-hit-british-airways-flight-may-have-been/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/21/drone-believed-t... https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/04/drone-that-hit-british-airways-jet-was-likely-a-plastic-bag/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/04/drone...
jfoster 8y ago
"Despite going down the wrong avenue with the arrest, investigators do have more to work with after they recovered a fallen and damaged drone from the north side of the airport. It is being tested for clues on who piloted it, according to The Guardian." “always a possibility that there may not have been any genuine drone activity in the first place.” Don't these two contradict? The best consistency possible between them is that the damaged drone was placed there rather than flown, at a different time. In all likelihood it probably did crash, though. Given the timing of finding it, it would seem related to this incident. Perhaps there should be some skyward-facing CCTV-like cameras at airports to remove some ambiguity in situations like this.
sys_64738 8y ago
When I read about this, the intense pressure the police were under, that they arrested two people then released them due to iron clad alibis, it makes me wonder if they panicked and tried to pin it on the first couple of people to pass within their sights. Reading about English police corruption recently, this doesn't surprise me if it were true.

71 points by JackPoach 8y ago

And yet, from the article: "investigators do have more to work with after they recovered a fallen and damaged drone from the north side of the airport."

PavlovsCat 8y ago
Which technically can mean a lot of things, that drone could have been there for a while, and just been found when they combed everything for a drone.
- redcalx 8y ago
  Indeed. If they can't link it to anyone or even any time, then it can't be used as evidence. Although it may be a fruitful line of enquiry if was one of the problem drones from last week. E.g. tracing sale of parts from serial numbers.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

Edd314159 8y ago

> The suggestion there may not have been any drones at Gatwick Airport was a "miscommunication by police", a government source has told the BBC. > During a conference call between ministers, chaired by Transport Secretary Chris Grayling, it was agreed the 67 drone sightings were legitimate. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46670714 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46670714) As much as "it was all a false alarm" would make a killer headline (and clearly has, even in speculation), it doesn't seem that anyone actually believes that. Just a poor choice of works.

wrinkl3 8y ago
Yes, whoever provided that particular soundbite really shouldn't be in charge of public communication.
chrisseaton 8y ago
The Police in the UK often say the most ludicrous things in statements, and the basic public speaking skills of the people they choose to put out is often very limited. They always look like they're caught in the headlights while trying to sweatily stumble through reading some words off a page. I'm not sure what institutionally causes this, but it must be something causing it as it's always the same. Remember when recently a senior Police officer in a statement just decided to call some extremely serious allegations they were looking into 'true' as if they had already had the trial and preempting the whole judicial process? I can't understand how you can accidentally 'misspeak' like that.
- C1sc0cat 8y ago
  They don't hire the brightest - recently I heard a former senior ex met natsec policeman who presented as very very stupid individual I would not trust to investigate a missing kitten. There was also the scandal where a v senior copper on the Cyber side was found cheating.
  - tantalor 8y ago
    Cheating? At what?
    - C1sc0cat 8y ago
      Exam to join the Police Central e-Crime Unit (PCeU), https://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/19/pceu_tribunal/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/19/pceu_tribunal/
  - bgeeek 8y ago
    To be fair, and I've come across this so many times, you can be good at your job and still have awful presentation skills. I don't think we get taught things like this in the UK and/or get practise in it, unlike other countries.

tezza 8y ago

This country ( UK ) is highly prone to mass psychosis. Not really ascribing anything negative there, just an observation. A few winters ago there was minute by minute updates on Bird Flu. The press was covering swans and ducks found dead on the ground. Each individual fowl corpse was covered in breathless detail amongst infographics and timelines The government was manoeuvred into buying close to a billion pounds of Tamiflu treatment. Some of that was returned, but £500m wasn’t (thanks to commentators below ) Tamiflu killed more people that the H5N1 So may more examples beyond this

matthewmacleod 8y ago
This is a terrible, terrible example. Tamiflu is not a vaccine, it’s a treatment. It’s use is recommended in some cases according to clinical best practices, and purchases were not due to the government being “manoeuvred”. And further, the fact that an outbreak didn’t happen doesn’t mean that planning for an outbreak is bad.
yangyang 8y ago
Under £500m. Still a huge amount but considerably less than £9b. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-26954482 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-26954482
DanBC 8y ago
> The government was manoeuvred into buying £9 billion pounds of Tamiflu vaccine. £9bn was about the total prescription medication budget at the time, so I think you've gone wrong somewhere.
- tezza 8y ago
  corrected above.
- starbeast 8y ago
  The seasonal mass psychosis must be spreading.
- easytiger 8y ago

merricksb 8y ago

Earlier discussion after release of suspects yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18745624 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18745624

barry0079 8y ago

Not before plastering the faces of an innocent couple nationwide. I think they deserve reparation for this.

jackweirdy 8y ago
As far as we know it wasn't the police who reported their names and addresses. Police typically don't release names until someone is charged. Newspapers reported their names, usually that happens off the back of neighbours tipping off the papers for cash about the police knocking on doors.
- C1sc0cat 8y ago
  Or an envelope of cash to a bent copper
  - eponeponepon 8y ago
    Bent coppers charge a lot. The guy two doors down probably won't stand to lose his job, so will like as not spill the beans for a pint.
- dazc 8y ago
  'Police typically don't release names until someone is charged.' Various celebrities could argue otherwise.
  - teh_klev 8y ago
    Yep, the Cliff Richard raid is a prime example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Richard#2014:_Property_search,_investigation_and_BBC_litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Richard#2014:_Property_s...
redcalx 8y ago
The paper's that did that made clearly libellous claims - because the couple had not yet been charged with an offence when their names were published. Those paper's can now expect libel claims against them, although given the clear breach of libel law I expect they will wish to settle out of court rather than take on the extra expense of a court case they can't win.

beerlord 8y ago

The suggestion is that the airports were under major terrorism threat, which is why the army was involved. They didn't say this to avoid spooking the public, and having a whole lot of people cancel their flights and holidays (plus it would have been major fuel for the Yellow Vests).

benj111 8y ago
The yellow vests, as in the protests in France? What's that got to do with drones in the UK???
- DanBC 8y ago
  There are some very small protests in the UK from people wearing Yellow Vests. These appear to be from Brexit supporters. Here's a video of some people blocking a bridge, causing delay to an ambo: https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1073558833878962176 https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/10735588338789621...
  - benj111 8y ago
    So Brexit supporters are copying French fuel protesters even though we have a different fuel duty regime that isn't set by Europe, and they want to leave Europe (and by extension, France) anyway? That makes perfect sense.
    - jacquesm 8y ago
      For a real head twister: the various 'exit' and 'anti-eu' groups have tried to unite EU wide... That one still has me wondering if they realize what they are doing.
      - benj111 8y ago
        So they've formed a.... union?

bigwheeler 8y ago

I just still can’t wrap my head around the fact that in 2018, with a camera attached to every waking persons hand (and some sleeping people too), how is it that there is not a single public photo or video published of this specific drone. Kind of reminds me of when I found out that tipping cows wasn’t a real thing...

huffmsa 8y ago
Funny how UFO reports have generally decreased in the last decade. Pics or it didn't happen
- TomGullen 8y ago
  Well that's because they are less bold now people have better cameras :P
jsjohnst 8y ago
> I just still can’t wrap my head around the fact that in 2018, with a camera attached to every waking persons hand (and some sleeping people too), how is it that there is not a single public photo or video published of this specific drone. I’ve been in many debates about this in the drone flying community (and with friends who know me and how much I fly) and I keep coming back to this point. I’d even take a blurry “UFO sighting” photo under consideration, but even that doesn’t exist. Virtually every single “close call with a plane” has thankfully (thankfully both for the safety of passengers and for other UAV pilots who would be impacted by the irresponsible party’s actions) been proven later to not have been a drone. PS, cow tipping is real (as in its “possible”, not that folks are successful), but it’s much harder than folks realize (I grew up in a farm state and have seen it done once with multiple big guys involved, but also seen many a drunken fool fall on their face trying too).
- huffmsa 8y ago
  Even asleep, a one ton animal is hard to move

Udik 8y ago

Could it have been a mass psychosis? First a real drone sighting and the closure of the airport; then when the news spread, tens of people reported more sightings. There are two densely populated towns on both sides of Gatwick airport, within a couple of kms from the runways. After the first sighting, any other within that range must have been considered a risk worth closing the airport for. A drone is just a black dot in the sky, I wouldn't be surprised by false reports.

alt_f4 8y ago

They also claimed these drones were "industrial specification". How did they determine that when they've never seen them? There should be some sort of penalty for blatantly lying to the public, even if it is done to save face about your incompetence.

Angostura 8y ago
Who was "they" can you find the on-the-record comment that suggested this?
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  The Police literally said 'industrial specification' on their own Twitter feed. https://twitter.com/sussex_police/status/1075723025713127424 https://twitter.com/sussex_police/status/1075723025713127424
- wyck 8y ago
  The U.K. papers had diagrams of this said drone, including speculation of the actual model, cost($8k+) , I even saw a diagram of a superimposition of the drone over a airplane engine to show the relative size. They also mentioned the drone must have been hacked to bypass the built-in blackout software for airports.
soneil 8y ago
Everything I’ve read (which is not exhaustive) put that as speculation based on the time spent aloft. Behaviour-based but not evidence-based.

monochromatic 8y ago

https://frinkiac.com/meme/S08E16/1219284.jpg?b64lines=VEhBVCdTIFNPTUUgR09PRApXT1JLLCBMT1Uu https://frinkiac.com/meme/S08E16/1219284.jpg?b64lines=VEhBVC...

jacquesm 8y ago

So how was the link between non-existing drones and a very specific couple made?

rasz 8y ago

last time it turned out to be a shopping bag https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/21/drone-believed-to-have-hit-british-airways-flight-may-have-been/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/21/drone-believed-t... https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/04/drone-that-hit-british-airways-jet-was-likely-a-plastic-bag/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/04/drone...

jfoster 8y ago

"Despite going down the wrong avenue with the arrest, investigators do have more to work with after they recovered a fallen and damaged drone from the north side of the airport. It is being tested for clues on who piloted it, according to The Guardian." “always a possibility that there may not have been any genuine drone activity in the first place.” Don't these two contradict? The best consistency possible between them is that the damaged drone was placed there rather than flown, at a different time. In all likelihood it probably did crash, though. Given the timing of finding it, it would seem related to this incident. Perhaps there should be some skyward-facing CCTV-like cameras at airports to remove some ambiguity in situations like this.

sys_64738 8y ago

When I read about this, the intense pressure the police were under, that they arrested two people then released them due to iron clad alibis, it makes me wonder if they panicked and tried to pin it on the first couple of people to pass within their sights. Reading about English police corruption recently, this doesn't surprise me if it were true.