14 ms·
How Juul became worth $38B
- pstuart 8y agoI am against making any drugs illegal but shit like this is why we can't have nice things.
- aplummer 8y agoStrongly against making drugs with very low potential for harm illegal, but that’s definitely not tobacco related products. I feel it undermines the logic based argument to legalize recreational drugs. As well, smoking costs 3x the tax revenue from society, coming from single payer, I don’t love paying for people picking up smoking / vaping since the dangers were known.
- pstuart 8y agoHow's well is that working with meth? Opiates? I've lost family and friends to both -- they were not "protected from themselves" Lost my mother to alcohol, which is legal and kills 10s of thousands in the US each year. I don't have an easy answer, but I do know that our current approach is wrong.
- aviv 8y agoSo why are you against making this kind of crap illegal? Why are we doing everything we can to protect society from terrorism, but not so with thousands of car deaths due to alcohol consumption?
- macspoofing 8y agoOr Sugar. Sugar actually kills.
- votepaunchy 8y agoCorn kills. Sugar is typically high fructose corn syrup in America.
- macspoofing 8y agoDoes it matter? How quantities of any kind of sugar (whether it be in the form of carbs or fructose) are really bad for you.
- aviv 8y agoDon't tell me you're one of those that thinks sugar from whole fruit is bad for you?
- hopler 8y agoYou mean like how Steve jobs killed his pancreas and himself by eating only fruit? Your naturalistic fallacy aside, modern fruits ate not natural; they have been genetically engineered to be as sugary as possible.
- aviv 8y agoLOL, the Steve Jobs argument. He's the goto scapegoat whenever someone wants to spread falsehood on raw foods, fruits in particular. He wasn't fruitarian. In his early years (20s) perhaps more so, but in the years before his cancer was discovered he was known to consume lots of vegan junk food and processed foods, oils and salt - his body was massively acidic. In the couple years before his death he ended up consuming a lot of dairy and excess protein - both killers and horrible to the human body. So one semi-fruitarian dies, fruits are evil. Millions of people die from diets that consist heavily of processed meat, soda, dairy, excess protein, processed sugar and other garbage - nothing to see here.
- macspoofing 8y agoSugar is sugar. Having said that, as fruit also contain fiber and other things it would be hard to ingest an unhealthy amount if that was your primary source of sugar. It's also why all-natural fruit juices are as bad (or worse) for you as soft-drinks.
- aplummer 8y agoWait I’m confused, Weed: killed few people Opiates: killed many people I’m saying 1) should be illegal and 2) should not How you actually treat criminals however, totally for the Nordic model, not the USA model.
- sealjam 8y agoI read the parent post as highlighting the fact that the illegality of opiates/meth is not helping to protect people from them. Perhaps the implication is that we need other solutions aside from making things illegal.
- v_lisivka 8y agoLegality of alcohol doesn't protect either.
- hopler 8y agoOpiates aren't a catastrophe because they are illegal, they are a catastrophe because government prosecutes the victims and not the perpetrators (manufacters/dealers).
- pstuart 8y agoWhen my brother overdosed on heroin he was shooting up unknown quality/potency. If he was using legal dope he'd likely not have made that mistake. I agree with the government victimization but legal drugs implies purity and labeling requirements to allow choices to be better informed.
- baddox 8y agoI’ve also heard that smokers cost society less because they die earlier.
- baddox 8y agoHere’s a Dutch report: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748...
- nv-vn 8y agoWe absolutely do not know the dangers of vaping... what dangers exactly are there? Apart from increasing your heart rate it doesn't seem to be responsible for much harm at all.
- DanBC 8y agoSeveral flavours are linked to lung damage.
- y0ghur7_xxx 8y ago> Several flavours are linked to lung damage. If this is the case, then some flavors are dangerous, not vaping in itself.
- cyphar 8y agoThere was a study recently showing that vaping negatively affects protective cells in lung tissue which may result in lung inflammation[1]. Their results were not related to flavours -- they specifically used flavourless fluid, instead they were concerned with vegetable glycerin and propylene glycol (the primary components of e-cigatette fluid). Obviously vaping is preferable to smoking, but I have serious doubts that inhaling air isn't preferable to vaping. [1]: https://thorax.bmj.com/content/73/12/1161 https://thorax.bmj.com/content/73/12/1161
- DanBC 8y agoBut see also the diacetyl "butter" flavours (and also "popcorn lung") https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ypwadv/how-butter-flavored-e-cigs-are-fueling-a-crucial-vaping-controversy https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ypwadv/how-butter...
- snarfy 8y ago> As well, smoking costs 3x the tax revenue from society, Source? Are you sure it's not 5x or 10x? Because all of the evidence I've ever seen says smoking cost society less - smokers die sooner. [1] [1] - https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748...
- y0ghur7_xxx 8y ago> I don’t love paying for people picking up smoking / vaping since the dangers were known Are the dangers of vaping known tho? Is there any study that shows it causes physical damage like inhaling smoke from a burning cigarette? Is seems fairly obvious to me that inhaling vegetable glycerin and nicotine does not cause any harm. The only "problem" is the nicotine addiction, but that one does not cause any physical harm, it just costs money to buy refills.
- EamonnMR 8y agoThe dangers of vaping are unknown, however the fear is that once hooked on Nicotine users may switch to cigarettes.
- hopler 8y agoVapes like Juul are also way easier to consume to excess, for reasons the OP explains.
- cyphar 8y ago> Is seems fairly obvious to me that inhaling vegetable glycerin and nicotine does not cause any harm. Why is that obvious? Lungs evolved to absorb oxygen not vegetable glycerin or propylene glycol. In fact there is some evidence that it may be harmful to protective cells in the lung walls, potentially increasing the risk of lung inflammation[1]. Obviously we'll have to wait 30 years to know of any long-term effects, but maybe common sense would be a better life decision if you don't want to be a test subject. I would also suggest that there is a risk of cheap e-cigarettes causing even more serious harm because they might have contaminants in the fluid being inhaled. [1]: https://thorax.bmj.com/content/73/12/1161 https://thorax.bmj.com/content/73/12/1161
- y0ghur7_xxx 8y ago> https://thorax.bmj.com/content/73/12/1161 https://thorax.bmj.com/content/73/12/1161 Thank you I didn't know about this.
- 8y ago
- dilyevsky 8y agoNicotine is mostly harmless mkay
- mattmaroon 8y agoThey really misuse the phrase "virality" over and over here. There's nothing beyond word of mouth spreading it from one user to another. It's more UX that's impressive.
- dang 8y agoOk, we've reduced the title above to the salient point.
- halfjoking 8y agoI tried nicotine toothpicks and they just made me feel sleepy and didn't give any neurological benefits. I don't really see why nicotine is popular at all. Caffeine, P5P, D-Ribose, Astragalus, Turmeric... etc. are way better natural stimulants/nootropics. I guess people don't smoke for the same reasons that I take supplements.
- haisch 8y agoUnrelated but Turmeric often contains elevated levels of lead compared to other spices. Source: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/pdfs/mm6746a2-H.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/pdfs/mm6746a2-H.pdf
- lordnacho 8y agoI wonder if some people are predisposed to nicotine while others aren't. I also tried to smoke, felt nothing good. Hot fire stick that dries out my throat for zero benefit. And I mean zero. I'd look at my friend and be like "WTF is the point of this again?" But it wouldn't surprise me that other people do feel something.
- Fnoord 8y agoThe first time I smoked I felt the same: nothing good. But eventually I got hooked. You become addicted and feel terrible while not on it. Once you're on it, you're good to go for a while again. (I eventually managed to quit.)
- quickthrower2 8y agoI only tried smoking when drunk and the effect was to make me dizzy, like I’d been spinning on a roundabout too fast.
- Fnoord 8y agoThat effect is normal the first time(s) you smoke. It goes away eventually. The alcohol probably made it worse, or more uncomfortable. Either way, good on you for not starting. I succeeded with not starting various times, but did fail eventually. Growing up with a mother who smoked (did quit too though) who's also my main parent did not help.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- Ice_cream_suit 8y agoThe big attraction of Juul is delivering cannabinols via vaping. That is why Phillip Morris (aka Altria) put 18 billion into it. They plan to combine Juul their vape acquisition and Cronos their cannabis acquisition. Big cannabis is coming and will dwarf big tobacco...
- fludlight 8y agoWeed was the original product from the Juul folks, back when the company was called Pax. Juul was a spin off from that company. The big attraction of Juul is to introduce teenagers to tobacco.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- eptcyka 8y agoNot tobacco but nicotine. Just as despicable, slightly less deadly.
- ACC_investor 8y agoActually a lot less deadly.
- ptd 8y agoHas Juul done anything to target teenagers? Or is this speculation?
- dylz 8y agohttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/07/30/e-cigarette-maker-juul-targeted-teens-with-false-claims-of-safety-lawsuit-claims https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/0... https://www.businessinsider.com/juul-e-cig-startup-marketing-appealed-to-teens-2018-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/juul-e-cig-startup-marketing... Anecdotally, they appear to be paying a ton of influencers on social media to advertise Juuls - friends notice it all the time, influencers that specifically almost all have children as their demographic. So they don't have to say they are directly buying ads targetting <18, but indirectly that's a huge amount of their reach.
- verroq 8y agoBut seriously though, JUUL is the rocket ship I wish I could put my money in.
- Gatsky 8y agoHow is it we allow people to make money from hacking human brains... It isn’t going to end well. Society will pay, just like it did and continues to do for tobacco.
- macspoofing 8y ago>How is it we allow people to make money from hacking human brains... Sugar.
- brianwawok 8y agoAdvertising. Loot crates. Social media.
- mdolon 8y agoOne could argue that many social media companies are doing the same. The net psychological effects of gamification and engagement hacks are yet to be very well understood.
- olliej 8y agoUm, by marketing an extremely addictive drug to children and young people? That’s what tobacco did in the past, and are doing again now.
- macspoofing 8y agoEh. Not quite the same. And it wasn't marketed to children. Apparently there's just something about blowing smoke and age restriction that is cool to teens. It is almost as if Juul was sought after by them. Also, it isn't tobacco that is the big driver of juul sales. Weed is. And we've had a multi-decade marketing campaign about how weed carries no negative side-effects by large swaths of the population. I got shellacked on this forum when I tried to argue that it isn't normal for kids to smoke weed (apparently it is perfectly normal for kids to 'experiment'). Juul didn't do that.
- jrs95 8y agoBut an article I read on the internet said it was true!
- avn2109 8y agoTobacco is an industrial product. It's only amenable to industrial cultivation at scale, because of the biology of the tobacco plant. It's not feasible to grow and process enough tobacco yourself to sustain a habit. This is why big tobacco made such a gigantic pile of money in the last 100 years. But now Americans don't smoke cigarettes anymore. The thing about weed is that it's not an industrial product. A 15 year old can easily grow enough weed in his bedroom to keep himself constantly high. This is Really Bad for profits. So Juul is valuable because big tobacco sees an opportunity to revive tobacco sales aka nicotine Juul cartridges, while also replacing soon-to-be-legalized ordinary marijuana with weed-themed Juul cartridges. It's a two-pronged strategy.
- grandmczeb 8y ago> A 15 year old can easily grow enough weed in his bedroom to keep himself constantly high. This is Really Bad for profits. I see this repeated a lot, but I have a very hard time believing it matters at all. It’s just as easy to grow tomatoes and the result is significantly cheaper and tastier than what you can buy in stores, yet I doubt anyone would say tomatoes are significantly less profitable because of it. Even in my own state where growing weed is legal I’ve heard of exactly one friend who grew their own, and that was a one time novelty rather than a real supply. The reality is that the vast majority of customers prefer the convience of pre-packaged and pre-portioned weed products over the cost savings of growing. In fact, if anything the trend is towards more convenice (edibles, single dose vapes, delivery services) rather than away from it. The profit impact of those who do choose to grow will be extremely tiny.
- varjag 8y ago"How drug dealers are getting rich"
- lozenge 8y agoFlagged for just being native advertising, considering how often the brand is mentioned (most of the article applies to all e cigarettes)
- CPLX 8y agoA profile of a successful company by an independent journalist is not advertising. It’s actually an entire category of journalism, and happens to be the genre TechCrunch is known for.
- wpdev_63 8y agoI bought my first e-cigarette the other day from a local smoke shop. I am switching to vaping as a way to quit smoking after 10 years. Anyways, I saw the juul cigarette for more than double the price of all the other normal e-cigarettes on the shelf and the capsules themselves weren't cheap. I obviously went with the less flashy eco vaporizer and bought the liquid in the bottle. Cost me $30 in total and still using it 3 months later. My point is that I didn't any reason to buy the juul other than brand. The competitors are significantly cheaper and more customizable(i guess). I believe much like gopro, juul going to tank at some point. They are very overvalued here.
- huffmsa 8y agoLet me try: "[Apple's] competitors are significantly cheaper and more customizable(i guess). I believe much like [the iPhone], juul going to tank at some point. They are very overvalued here." I wouldn't say you're incorrect about them tanking, but I would argue that they're more Apple (sleek, sexy, status symbols) than some other segment leader.
- NicoJuicy 8y agoApple is overvalued also, they are getting corrected by the market now though.
- wpdev_63 8y agoThe difference is that apple makes a arguably different product than its competitors; android marketplace is still lacking in quality in comparison to apple store, ios is more seamless, the apple ecosystem is the strongest out there etc. Juul is simply packaging e-vap in a fancy wrapper and charging double of what their competitors are charging. It's silly to make the comparison.
- huffmsa 8y ago"Juul's competitors pod selection and ease of use is vastly inferior to their own. The experience of not having to fiddle around with settings to get the vape to work is refreshing when compared to the competition." The article specifically mentions network affects like being able to plug your pods into someone else's stick if yours is out of battery. Google Play (Android Market was renamed in 2012) has pretty much the same selection as the App store. "Apple is simply packaging Samsung components in a fancy wrapper and charging double what the competitors are charging." Apple makes cellphones. So does everyone else.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]