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You know, there is another country that have United States in its name, the United States of Brazil. Do you know any of their individual states? You may know no

You know, there is another country that have United States in its name, the United States of Brazil. Do you know any of their individual states? You may know now some of the ex-URSS component countries because recent conflicts, but back then, would they had count as countries or states? Talking about EU is like talking about OTAN. Each of their component countries have their own president, their own political countries, and in a good part and their own policies, besides the group common policies. Countries are about political borders, not economical. Would you put California, Wall Street, Shenzhen and a few more at the same level as countries?

dlisboa 8y ago
> You know, there is another country that have United States in its name, the United States of Brazil. Brazil is called "Federative Republic of Brazil". It's been that way for half a century.
Al-Khwarizmi 8y ago
AFAIK Brazil doesn't have "United States" in its name now (it did in the past). It's now called the Federal Republic of Brazil. Mexico does, it's called United Mexican Sates.
nothrabannosir 8y ago
I do know the names of the states of Brazil, yes, but fair is fair: that's a coincidence. However, to your second and third point: yes, I do consider California more on the level of a European country. With its own laws, which very significantly impact the lives of her citizens. Hell, I'd wager almost everyone knew the name of its political leader at some point! Quite a famous guy :) originally European, even. Political borders exist very strongly between the states of the U.S.A., that's why they call it the "U.S.A.". I'm not just being glib; the level of delegation to states is so intense, capital punishment is a states rights issue. That is unheard of within any other country I can think of. At the end of the day, this is politics and linguistics: famously unspecific and imprecise. We will never find a perfect classification. It's about what is "least wrong." And to me, comparing a U.S. state to a European country makes much more sense culturally, economically, and politically, than it does to squeeze all of the U.S.A. into Denmark. (I don't know whence "Wall St.", but my point was never merely economy. Perhaps because of the "economic powerhouse" when referring to the U.S.A.? That was more an attempt at a jazzy moniker than a complete summary of what I think makes the country relevant, but I see the confusion. Apologies.)
- SllX 8y ago
  Not that you’re wrong, and not that I disagree with much, but I would take issue with your cherry picking. The United States is a Federation. The States do have strong borders, their own laws, their own takes on a republican system, even their own electoral and judicial systems that are in many ways distinctly different. California is not distinct from South Dakota in this way. The States do tend to have very large GSP’s relative to most countries, always directly comparable to the GDP of a nation. This is two parts being part of the single largest national economy in the world and one part the fact there are some very poor countries in the world, and even some European countries aren’t exactly rich, even if they aren’t exactly poor either. Generally each State does punch above its economic weight, even if the budgetary considerations are often complicated by that largest national economy in the world having a multi-trillion national budget backing up four of the largest armed forces in the world. However, that doesn’t make each and every State particularly relevant to an internationally-minded person of the world. A well educated person might be able to name every nation in Europe, South America, North America and even the Middle East and quite a number of subdivisions to boot, but what about Micronesia, Africa or Polynesia? Most probably won’t be able to tell the difference between Polynesia or Micronesia anymore than they can tell the difference between North Dakota, Alabama or Colorado. Then certain other States have brands, and punch way above their weight. California. Texas. New York. If they are well known, it is because they are distinctly relevant on the global stage by themselves. California alone has Hollywood, Silicon Valley, San Francisco, Stanford and Wine Country. These are all fairly well known brands on their own, SFO and LAX are effectively brands to a well seasoned air traveler. The fact that California has an economy in the Top 5 in the world in her own has no bearing on the life of your average adult almost anywhere in the world, but they will probably recognize the products and services of California, Inc. Even if they don’t, there is still a decent chance they partake in some of California’s bounty of farm products, almonds in particular are largely grown here. My point being you can’t cherry pick California and use an argument that would apply to any of the other 50 States when you can also make many of the same claims for: German States, Austrian States, Swiss Cantons, Australian States, Canadian Provinces, and UAE Emirates (name more than two without looking it up, you might be able to but at most the only two most hear about are Dubai and Abu Dhabi), and these are just off the top of my head. There are a lot of places that get to make their own laws and enforce them. In the United States there are many tribal nations that get to make their own laws and enforce them which are largely anonymous and unknown to most Americans and you won’t find them on most maps that mark the States. That doesn’t necessarily put them all on the same level as the sovereign countries they reside in. Norway is a sovereign country, California is not. The United States is a sovereign country, the European Union is a mess of treaties.
AnthonyMouse 8y ago
> Each of their component countries have their own president, their own political countries, and in a good part and their own policies, besides the group common policies. US states have their own governor, their own political counties, and in a good part and their own policies, besides the common group policies. > Would you put California, Wall Street, Shenzhen and a few more at the same level as countries? Tennessee has approximately the same population, GDP, land area, etc. as Ireland. Texas was an independent country before it was a state.
- nfg 8y ago
  > US states have their own governor, their own political counties, and in a good part and their own policies, besides the common group policies. That’s also true of the sub-divisions of many European states.
  - AnthonyMouse 8y ago
    > That’s also true of the sub-divisions of many European states. And cities have mayors and school boards have chairmen etc. But a US State has its own Supreme Court with the final decision on matters of state law. The governor of California doesn't work for President Trump.
    - xanipher 8y ago
      And the Landeshauptmann of Lower Austria doesn't work for chancellor Kurz. I get what you're saying, but the US is not that special.
goodcanadian 8y ago
Also: Estados Unidos Mexicanos
gammateam 8y ago
Mexico is the United States of Mexico as well
matwood 8y ago
> Countries are about political borders, not economical. Would you put California, Wall Street, Shenzhen and a few more at the same level as countries? It's about both, and when it comes to the world stage? Yes. Californias GDP is greater than every country in Europe except Germany - just barely. Heck, CA's GDP on the world stage is 5th according to wikipedia. If you want to talk about land mass, there are also only a few countries in Europe that are larger than CA. Wall Street, and by extension NYC is one of the most important cities in the world. It is absolutely on the same level as a country.

dlisboa 8y ago

> You know, there is another country that have United States in its name, the United States of Brazil. Brazil is called "Federative Republic of Brazil". It's been that way for half a century.

Al-Khwarizmi 8y ago

AFAIK Brazil doesn't have "United States" in its name now (it did in the past). It's now called the Federal Republic of Brazil. Mexico does, it's called United Mexican Sates.

nothrabannosir 8y ago

I do know the names of the states of Brazil, yes, but fair is fair: that's a coincidence. However, to your second and third point: yes, I do consider California more on the level of a European country. With its own laws, which very significantly impact the lives of her citizens. Hell, I'd wager almost everyone knew the name of its political leader at some point! Quite a famous guy :) originally European, even. Political borders exist very strongly between the states of the U.S.A., that's why they call it the "U.S.A.". I'm not just being glib; the level of delegation to states is so intense, capital punishment is a states rights issue. That is unheard of within any other country I can think of. At the end of the day, this is politics and linguistics: famously unspecific and imprecise. We will never find a perfect classification. It's about what is "least wrong." And to me, comparing a U.S. state to a European country makes much more sense culturally, economically, and politically, than it does to squeeze all of the U.S.A. into Denmark. (I don't know whence "Wall St.", but my point was never merely economy. Perhaps because of the "economic powerhouse" when referring to the U.S.A.? That was more an attempt at a jazzy moniker than a complete summary of what I think makes the country relevant, but I see the confusion. Apologies.)

SllX 8y ago
Not that you’re wrong, and not that I disagree with much, but I would take issue with your cherry picking. The United States is a Federation. The States do have strong borders, their own laws, their own takes on a republican system, even their own electoral and judicial systems that are in many ways distinctly different. California is not distinct from South Dakota in this way. The States do tend to have very large GSP’s relative to most countries, always directly comparable to the GDP of a nation. This is two parts being part of the single largest national economy in the world and one part the fact there are some very poor countries in the world, and even some European countries aren’t exactly rich, even if they aren’t exactly poor either. Generally each State does punch above its economic weight, even if the budgetary considerations are often complicated by that largest national economy in the world having a multi-trillion national budget backing up four of the largest armed forces in the world. However, that doesn’t make each and every State particularly relevant to an internationally-minded person of the world. A well educated person might be able to name every nation in Europe, South America, North America and even the Middle East and quite a number of subdivisions to boot, but what about Micronesia, Africa or Polynesia? Most probably won’t be able to tell the difference between Polynesia or Micronesia anymore than they can tell the difference between North Dakota, Alabama or Colorado. Then certain other States have brands, and punch way above their weight. California. Texas. New York. If they are well known, it is because they are distinctly relevant on the global stage by themselves. California alone has Hollywood, Silicon Valley, San Francisco, Stanford and Wine Country. These are all fairly well known brands on their own, SFO and LAX are effectively brands to a well seasoned air traveler. The fact that California has an economy in the Top 5 in the world in her own has no bearing on the life of your average adult almost anywhere in the world, but they will probably recognize the products and services of California, Inc. Even if they don’t, there is still a decent chance they partake in some of California’s bounty of farm products, almonds in particular are largely grown here. My point being you can’t cherry pick California and use an argument that would apply to any of the other 50 States when you can also make many of the same claims for: German States, Austrian States, Swiss Cantons, Australian States, Canadian Provinces, and UAE Emirates (name more than two without looking it up, you might be able to but at most the only two most hear about are Dubai and Abu Dhabi), and these are just off the top of my head. There are a lot of places that get to make their own laws and enforce them. In the United States there are many tribal nations that get to make their own laws and enforce them which are largely anonymous and unknown to most Americans and you won’t find them on most maps that mark the States. That doesn’t necessarily put them all on the same level as the sovereign countries they reside in. Norway is a sovereign country, California is not. The United States is a sovereign country, the European Union is a mess of treaties.

AnthonyMouse 8y ago

> Each of their component countries have their own president, their own political countries, and in a good part and their own policies, besides the group common policies. US states have their own governor, their own political counties, and in a good part and their own policies, besides the common group policies. > Would you put California, Wall Street, Shenzhen and a few more at the same level as countries? Tennessee has approximately the same population, GDP, land area, etc. as Ireland. Texas was an independent country before it was a state.

nfg 8y ago
> US states have their own governor, their own political counties, and in a good part and their own policies, besides the common group policies. That’s also true of the sub-divisions of many European states.
- AnthonyMouse 8y ago
  > That’s also true of the sub-divisions of many European states. And cities have mayors and school boards have chairmen etc. But a US State has its own Supreme Court with the final decision on matters of state law. The governor of California doesn't work for President Trump.
  - xanipher 8y ago
    And the Landeshauptmann of Lower Austria doesn't work for chancellor Kurz. I get what you're saying, but the US is not that special.

goodcanadian 8y ago

Also: Estados Unidos Mexicanos

gammateam 8y ago

Mexico is the United States of Mexico as well

matwood 8y ago

> Countries are about political borders, not economical. Would you put California, Wall Street, Shenzhen and a few more at the same level as countries? It's about both, and when it comes to the world stage? Yes. Californias GDP is greater than every country in Europe except Germany - just barely. Heck, CA's GDP on the world stage is 5th according to wikipedia. If you want to talk about land mass, there are also only a few countries in Europe that are larger than CA. Wall Street, and by extension NYC is one of the most important cities in the world. It is absolutely on the same level as a country.