7 ms·

How much is the expected upside for crimes like this for the individual? Basically, even if you make this alleged crime punishable by life in prison, will peop

How much is the expected upside for crimes like this for the individual? Basically, even if you make this alleged crime punishable by life in prison, will people still attempt it because the upside is so much?

mtgx 8y ago
There's probably more than just a financial upside, but I imagine someone like this would pretty much be considered a hero at home (even if not publicly admitted as such). It seems like this issue is pretty systemic/coordinated by a centralized party.
- stretchwithme 8y ago
  Status is a powerful motivator.
fipple 8y ago
You’re thinking about this the wrong way. These people are on a mission for Mother China. It’s patriotism and loyalty. It’s why militaries everywhere get people signing up for a “glorious death” protecting the assets of billionaires.
- shawn 8y ago
  Patriotism and loyalty usually come at a price. I think the question was more about the price than the loyalty.
- fermienrico 8y ago
  Humans are still very barbaric in large masses. Tribalism persists in our very psyche.
  - throw-far-away 8y ago
    "Still?" Always have been, always will be. Wishing and hoping are idealistic, utopian pipe-dreams.
- whatshisface 8y ago
  Now that we have multiple hypotheses (patriotic motivation and materialistic motivation) we should think about how we could tell which one it was. I can't think of any way that we could ever know the difference.
  - fipple 8y ago
    Spying isn’t new. There’s always a combination of the two.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  Chinese people in general aren’t really like that. They aren’t especially patriotic or loyal when compared to Americans (most will eye roll at the above accusation). A lot of it just about money and opportunity that isn’t otherwise present in the states (corporate espionage is less common in the USA because it is prosecuted aggressively). Likewise, most soldiers don’t do soldiering for the glory or death, they do it for the money/opportunity.
- megablast 8y ago
  It might just be money. You will get paid more if you have worked for a well known company.
- Confusion 8y ago
  If you are asked to swipe some IP of your employer, with a subtle reminder you still have family in your home country and they know where to find them, what would you do?
  - Pica_soO 8y ago
    Especially if your new "home country" aka the US&A, does not go on the barricades if you a citizen get abducted, threatened or otherwise extorted.
- eklavya 8y ago
  Note: I am only talking about the military part. So they will only protect billionaires? No, that doesn't drive people to make sacrifices. In my opinion it's just about protecting what you love. There are some things worth fighting for even if it means a “glorious death”. Soldiers aren't stupid, I know some. They just can't not take the responsibility. In my eyes they are heroes.
- alextooter 8y ago
  What a joke here.I think there are no patriotism and loyalty. Those just in dreams and stories.
swimfar 8y ago
The guy who stole the wind turbine software and gave it to a Chinese competitor was promised a 5-year $200k/year employment deal. Although, it sounds like he may not have gotten it in the end. (Maybe there was a clause about getting caught.) https://www.forbes.com/sites/joanlappin/2011/09/27/american-superconductor-and-its-rogue-employee-both-duped-by-sinovel/#7700fa595faa https://www.forbes.com/sites/joanlappin/2011/09/27/american-... https://www.npr.org/2018/07/06/626683457/judge-orders-chinese-wind-turbine-maker-to-pay-59-million-for-stealing-trade-sec https://www.npr.org/2018/07/06/626683457/judge-orders-chines...
- thelittleone 8y ago
  I suppose the guy was outraged by the poor ethics of the Chinese competitor when he didn't get the job.
- microtherion 8y ago
  5 years @ $200K a year? This guy could use some negotiation advice from Anthony Levandowski.
- jk27277 8y ago
  The guy was an idiot. No Chinese company would stick to such a deal. Promise the world, deliver nothing.
pizza 8y ago
MICE: - Money - Ideology - Compromise/Coercion - Ego/Extortion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_spying https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_spying
cauldron 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousand_Talents_Program_(China) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousand_Talents_Program_(Chin... There are also local level derivatives. That guy who edited babies no long ago is one of it, apparently he raked in hundreds of millions of both government and private investment, claiming he invented an industry-leading gene sequencing machine that in fact is a failed US product he bought from his professor. Also, Huawei in their early ages stole one of Cisco router's source code and priced out Cisco with an exact same product compatible with Cisco systems, one Chinese academic invovled in modifying admitted it in an article. One of the role model stories.
- daviesliu 8y ago
  > Also, Huawei in their early ages stole one of Cisco router's source code and priced out Cisco with an exact same product compatible with Cisco systems, one Chinese academic invovled in modifying admitted it in an article. One of the role model stories. Source?
  - zeist 8y ago
    Internet stories

mtgx 8y ago

There's probably more than just a financial upside, but I imagine someone like this would pretty much be considered a hero at home (even if not publicly admitted as such). It seems like this issue is pretty systemic/coordinated by a centralized party.

stretchwithme 8y ago
Status is a powerful motivator.

fipple 8y ago

You’re thinking about this the wrong way. These people are on a mission for Mother China. It’s patriotism and loyalty. It’s why militaries everywhere get people signing up for a “glorious death” protecting the assets of billionaires.

shawn 8y ago
Patriotism and loyalty usually come at a price. I think the question was more about the price than the loyalty.
fermienrico 8y ago
Humans are still very barbaric in large masses. Tribalism persists in our very psyche.
- throw-far-away 8y ago
  "Still?" Always have been, always will be. Wishing and hoping are idealistic, utopian pipe-dreams.
whatshisface 8y ago
Now that we have multiple hypotheses (patriotic motivation and materialistic motivation) we should think about how we could tell which one it was. I can't think of any way that we could ever know the difference.
- fipple 8y ago
  Spying isn’t new. There’s always a combination of the two.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
seanmcdirmid 8y ago
Chinese people in general aren’t really like that. They aren’t especially patriotic or loyal when compared to Americans (most will eye roll at the above accusation). A lot of it just about money and opportunity that isn’t otherwise present in the states (corporate espionage is less common in the USA because it is prosecuted aggressively). Likewise, most soldiers don’t do soldiering for the glory or death, they do it for the money/opportunity.
megablast 8y ago
It might just be money. You will get paid more if you have worked for a well known company.
Confusion 8y ago
If you are asked to swipe some IP of your employer, with a subtle reminder you still have family in your home country and they know where to find them, what would you do?
- Pica_soO 8y ago
  Especially if your new "home country" aka the US&A, does not go on the barricades if you a citizen get abducted, threatened or otherwise extorted.
eklavya 8y ago
Note: I am only talking about the military part. So they will only protect billionaires? No, that doesn't drive people to make sacrifices. In my opinion it's just about protecting what you love. There are some things worth fighting for even if it means a “glorious death”. Soldiers aren't stupid, I know some. They just can't not take the responsibility. In my eyes they are heroes.
alextooter 8y ago
What a joke here.I think there are no patriotism and loyalty. Those just in dreams and stories.

swimfar 8y ago

The guy who stole the wind turbine software and gave it to a Chinese competitor was promised a 5-year $200k/year employment deal. Although, it sounds like he may not have gotten it in the end. (Maybe there was a clause about getting caught.) https://www.forbes.com/sites/joanlappin/2011/09/27/american-superconductor-and-its-rogue-employee-both-duped-by-sinovel/#7700fa595faa https://www.forbes.com/sites/joanlappin/2011/09/27/american-... https://www.npr.org/2018/07/06/626683457/judge-orders-chinese-wind-turbine-maker-to-pay-59-million-for-stealing-trade-sec https://www.npr.org/2018/07/06/626683457/judge-orders-chines...

thelittleone 8y ago
I suppose the guy was outraged by the poor ethics of the Chinese competitor when he didn't get the job.
microtherion 8y ago
5 years @ $200K a year? This guy could use some negotiation advice from Anthony Levandowski.
jk27277 8y ago
The guy was an idiot. No Chinese company would stick to such a deal. Promise the world, deliver nothing.

pizza 8y ago

MICE: - Money - Ideology - Compromise/Coercion - Ego/Extortion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_spying https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_spying

cauldron 8y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousand_Talents_Program_(China) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousand_Talents_Program_(Chin... There are also local level derivatives. That guy who edited babies no long ago is one of it, apparently he raked in hundreds of millions of both government and private investment, claiming he invented an industry-leading gene sequencing machine that in fact is a failed US product he bought from his professor. Also, Huawei in their early ages stole one of Cisco router's source code and priced out Cisco with an exact same product compatible with Cisco systems, one Chinese academic invovled in modifying admitted it in an article. One of the role model stories.

daviesliu 8y ago
> Also, Huawei in their early ages stole one of Cisco router's source code and priced out Cisco with an exact same product compatible with Cisco systems, one Chinese academic invovled in modifying admitted it in an article. One of the role model stories. Source?
- zeist 8y ago
  Internet stories