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This apology seems very generic and sterile to me. People are boycotting their product so they apologized. They should have communicated with their users to be

This apology seems very generic and sterile to me. People are boycotting their product so they apologized. They should have communicated with their users to begin with before taking such harsh actions.

geofft 8y ago
Are people actually boycotting their product? They very clearly see their free users as their non-primary market (no automatic invites, no tools for individuals to block individuals because your HR department is supposed to deal with it, limited archives, etc.) and I'm not sure a "boycott" of a free service even counts anyway. And a paying customer is not going to be able to drop Slack on one day's notice any more than they could drop email on one day's notice. Were there actually paying / potentially paying customers who cited this as a reason to stop using Slack?
- azhenley 8y ago
  My Twitter is full of academics with students and collaborators from all over the world that are complaining that Slack just eliminated their ability for them to communicate over the service. I'm not sure how many of them were free or paid though.
  - geofft 8y ago
    Being involuntarily prevented from using a service is rather the opposite of boycotting, I think. (In the sense that boycotts are a tool of applying economic pressure to convince someone to change their mind, and if you're being kicked off you aren't actually able to exert any pressure.)
    - azhenley 8y ago
      It isn't those that got kicked off that are boycotting. It is those that had students or collaborators get kicked off, that are now refusing to use Slack.
- inferiorhuman 8y ago
  You can block users now? At megacorp we definitely couldn't, and as much as there were people I wanted to block and mandatory channels I didn't want to be in… all of the frigging the bots were the most unbearable.
  - geofft 8y ago
    Sorry, I was unclear. You can't block people on either the free or paid plans, because you're supposed to ask your HR department to ask people to behave, and if you don't have an HR department you're 100% not their target audience. I've complained about this to Slack multiple times before, see their responses about how as a tool built for work they can't implement a block feature: https://twitter.com/geofft/status/767857284827475968 https://twitter.com/geofft/status/767857284827475968 https://twitter.com/geofft/status/770000987016818688 https://twitter.com/geofft/status/770000987016818688 https://twitter.com/geofft/status/818517767607517184 https://twitter.com/geofft/status/818517767607517184 https://twitter.com/geofft/status/1017193464415576065 https://twitter.com/geofft/status/1017193464415576065
    - inferiorhuman 8y ago
      Yeah I've seen that response too. While at megacorp I just stayed off of slack as much as possible.
- maldeh 8y ago
  All the same, it's good they took responsibility when they did. I don't use Slack at work at present, but being an emigrant worker myself (not iranian, but honestly it shouldn't really matter), the past week's events left enough of an impression on me that I would have likely strongly protested any attempts in my organization at getting a slack channel going. This response is at least well-written enough that it gives me pause, that I should research the company's track record more carefully before jumping to judgment. (they're still on thin ice as far as I'm concerned, but it's a step in the right direction)
tlb 8y ago
Saying "they should have acted differently to begin with" isn't a valid criticism of an apology, or it would apply to all apologies.
- azhenley 8y ago
  That was my point. Unless the apology is of the type "it accidentally got deployed before we had the opportunity to test the change and communicate to users..." then they shouldn't have done it to begin with.
  - cortesoft 8y ago
    So you are saying we are never allowed to make mistakes?
    - welly 8y ago
      I'm not sure you'll get a response as the OP probably can't hear you right up there on that high horse of theirs.
  - jholman 8y ago
    Your point is that you don't know what an apology is.
- hamandcheese 8y ago
  “If you were sorry you wouldn’t have done it to begin with” has also come up on several occasions in my personal life. Haven’t figured out how best to respond to that one.
  - tbranyen 8y ago
    If you did something wrong more than once and gave the same apology that statement would make total sense. The first time though is unfair and kind of selfish minded.
    - 8y ago
komali2 8y ago
From what I'm reading here, it would be impossible by your logic to effectively apologize. The only solution is to never make a mistake in the first place, which isn't a feasible expectation when dealing with humans.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- clwk 8y ago
  I agree entirely with your sentiment. Still, I'm not sure corporate personhood means we should judge corporate action as we would human action. It's still not possible to expect corporations to never mistakes, but I wouldn't excuse it on the basis of their humanity.
- DonHopkins 8y ago
  I believe there are unapologizable offenses that reveal true intrinsic character character flaws that can't be regretted away, but this definitely isn't one of them.
  - galangalalgol 8y ago
    I have character flaws. Do you propose that we exclude people with certain flaws from our online communities? Which ones? Lack of empathy is a popular target, but children under 7 almost all lack empathy and they can be generous and kind despite it being intellectually motivated instead of emotional. Adults without empathy can be similarly productive members of our communities.
    - DonHopkins 8y ago
      Do you have any specific unapologizably offensive character flaws that you want to admit to, or do you want me to try to make a judgement of whether or not you should be ostracized from society based on your one vague comment?

geofft 8y ago

Are people actually boycotting their product? They very clearly see their free users as their non-primary market (no automatic invites, no tools for individuals to block individuals because your HR department is supposed to deal with it, limited archives, etc.) and I'm not sure a "boycott" of a free service even counts anyway. And a paying customer is not going to be able to drop Slack on one day's notice any more than they could drop email on one day's notice. Were there actually paying / potentially paying customers who cited this as a reason to stop using Slack?

azhenley 8y ago
My Twitter is full of academics with students and collaborators from all over the world that are complaining that Slack just eliminated their ability for them to communicate over the service. I'm not sure how many of them were free or paid though.
- geofft 8y ago
  Being involuntarily prevented from using a service is rather the opposite of boycotting, I think. (In the sense that boycotts are a tool of applying economic pressure to convince someone to change their mind, and if you're being kicked off you aren't actually able to exert any pressure.)
  - azhenley 8y ago
    It isn't those that got kicked off that are boycotting. It is those that had students or collaborators get kicked off, that are now refusing to use Slack.
inferiorhuman 8y ago
You can block users now? At megacorp we definitely couldn't, and as much as there were people I wanted to block and mandatory channels I didn't want to be in… all of the frigging the bots were the most unbearable.
- geofft 8y ago
  Sorry, I was unclear. You can't block people on either the free or paid plans, because you're supposed to ask your HR department to ask people to behave, and if you don't have an HR department you're 100% not their target audience. I've complained about this to Slack multiple times before, see their responses about how as a tool built for work they can't implement a block feature: https://twitter.com/geofft/status/767857284827475968 https://twitter.com/geofft/status/767857284827475968 https://twitter.com/geofft/status/770000987016818688 https://twitter.com/geofft/status/770000987016818688 https://twitter.com/geofft/status/818517767607517184 https://twitter.com/geofft/status/818517767607517184 https://twitter.com/geofft/status/1017193464415576065 https://twitter.com/geofft/status/1017193464415576065
  - inferiorhuman 8y ago
    Yeah I've seen that response too. While at megacorp I just stayed off of slack as much as possible.
maldeh 8y ago
All the same, it's good they took responsibility when they did. I don't use Slack at work at present, but being an emigrant worker myself (not iranian, but honestly it shouldn't really matter), the past week's events left enough of an impression on me that I would have likely strongly protested any attempts in my organization at getting a slack channel going. This response is at least well-written enough that it gives me pause, that I should research the company's track record more carefully before jumping to judgment. (they're still on thin ice as far as I'm concerned, but it's a step in the right direction)

tlb 8y ago

Saying "they should have acted differently to begin with" isn't a valid criticism of an apology, or it would apply to all apologies.

azhenley 8y ago
That was my point. Unless the apology is of the type "it accidentally got deployed before we had the opportunity to test the change and communicate to users..." then they shouldn't have done it to begin with.
- cortesoft 8y ago
  So you are saying we are never allowed to make mistakes?
  - welly 8y ago
    I'm not sure you'll get a response as the OP probably can't hear you right up there on that high horse of theirs.
- jholman 8y ago
  Your point is that you don't know what an apology is.
hamandcheese 8y ago
“If you were sorry you wouldn’t have done it to begin with” has also come up on several occasions in my personal life. Haven’t figured out how best to respond to that one.
- tbranyen 8y ago
  If you did something wrong more than once and gave the same apology that statement would make total sense. The first time though is unfair and kind of selfish minded.
  - 8y ago

komali2 8y ago

From what I'm reading here, it would be impossible by your logic to effectively apologize. The only solution is to never make a mistake in the first place, which isn't a feasible expectation when dealing with humans.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
clwk 8y ago
I agree entirely with your sentiment. Still, I'm not sure corporate personhood means we should judge corporate action as we would human action. It's still not possible to expect corporations to never mistakes, but I wouldn't excuse it on the basis of their humanity.
DonHopkins 8y ago
I believe there are unapologizable offenses that reveal true intrinsic character character flaws that can't be regretted away, but this definitely isn't one of them.
- galangalalgol 8y ago
  I have character flaws. Do you propose that we exclude people with certain flaws from our online communities? Which ones? Lack of empathy is a popular target, but children under 7 almost all lack empathy and they can be generous and kind despite it being intellectually motivated instead of emotional. Adults without empathy can be similarly productive members of our communities.
  - DonHopkins 8y ago
    Do you have any specific unapologizably offensive character flaws that you want to admit to, or do you want me to try to make a judgement of whether or not you should be ostracized from society based on your one vague comment?