6 ms·

> I believe this problem exists a little bit in Europe where so many believe the EU = Europe, they use the terms interchangeably. I'm genuinely curious, in wha

by avmich 8y ago

> I believe this problem exists a little bit in Europe where so many believe the EU = Europe, they use the terms interchangeably. I'm genuinely curious, in what sense EU = Europe is wrong? Granted, not all European countries are members of EU, but EU is a big block with several significant majorities among their constituents - a big population, economy, living style, culture, history, especially if UK could be included. Why it's significantly wrong to approximate Europe as EU?

mistermann 8y ago
All of Europe doesn't have a homogeneous culture or history is one major issue.
- monocasa 8y ago
  Neither does China
  - mistermann 8y ago
    They have the same government though, and far less diversity.
    - a11595 8y ago
      When I lived in France, I had a buddy doing his PhD in French history. He was from Hong Kong. The difference between him and a Chinese mainlander is at species level. The people who grew up in the large mainland cities are educated, writing code for the phones discussed in this thread, and architecting skyscrapers - they speak multiple languages and wear suits. The ex-farmers in those cities poop in the middle of the street, out in the open. others then pump that poop out of the sewers, boil it, and use the floating oil on top to cook with and sell to restaurant. I would agree that Europe is more diverse that China. Eastern Europe + Russia is not more diverse than China. Neither is Western Europe + Iceland. And China is 10 times more diverse than the states. source: Russian born, US raised. Also lived in Spain, France, Japan. Been to Every EU and European country, and ~80 countries total. Wife is Chinese, not from the mainland.
      - mistermann 8y ago
        > The difference between him and a Chinese mainlander is at species level. In computer terms, their hardware (race) is essentially identical in capability, disregarding minor individual defects. At the software level (culture) there is tremendous variance. I often wonder what percentage of these disagreements are because of a misunderstanding of what level of the system is being discussed &/or that fact that substantial numbers of people don't/can't differentiate between race & culture.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
"in what sense EU = Europe is wrong" That one would even ask this is scary! Well ... a completely unelected Executive making laws for one. A completely unresponsive government - they do make some neat laws, but they are fully elitist, they have a total disdain for anything populist. A system wherein there is 'no way out' i.e. they will punish anyone who leave (i.e. Brexit). Have a look at Junkers statements regarding the Treaty of Lisbon referendums. Those words should have sparked a revolution, and he should have been jailed long ago. If there were alternative systems to the EU, for example, a trading block that was powerful enough to counter the EU i.e. UK, Norway, Switzerland ... then people would see that they don't have to be 'pro EU' to be 'pro European' and there would be alternatives. The EU is one country away from having to face this, because Norway, Switzerland and UK are not quite strong enough, but with one more ... then we'd see some kind of alternative. There would be 'competitive federalization' models and people would then have choice. Right now, it's a dictatorship of the elite, and there's no way at all to get the Executive branch to budge on any issues. Even literally voting 'no' on the Treaty of Lisbon was not enough. You can literally vote them down and they will march forward with their plan.
- futurix 8y ago
  No, it's only scary if you bought into pro-Brexit propaganda. Just like people say America instead of USA - they might say EU instead of Europe.
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    No, it's scary that intelligent people accept not having an elected body which formulates the law of the land. And scary that anyone who questions that is accused of falling for 'propaganda'.
    - bolyarche 8y ago
      Interesting, did you not vote in 2014, or do you just not understand how the EU works?
- keldaris 8y ago

by avmich 8y ago

mistermann 8y ago

All of Europe doesn't have a homogeneous culture or history is one major issue.

monocasa 8y ago
Neither does China
- mistermann 8y ago
  They have the same government though, and far less diversity.
  - a11595 8y ago
    When I lived in France, I had a buddy doing his PhD in French history. He was from Hong Kong. The difference between him and a Chinese mainlander is at species level. The people who grew up in the large mainland cities are educated, writing code for the phones discussed in this thread, and architecting skyscrapers - they speak multiple languages and wear suits. The ex-farmers in those cities poop in the middle of the street, out in the open. others then pump that poop out of the sewers, boil it, and use the floating oil on top to cook with and sell to restaurant. I would agree that Europe is more diverse that China. Eastern Europe + Russia is not more diverse than China. Neither is Western Europe + Iceland. And China is 10 times more diverse than the states. source: Russian born, US raised. Also lived in Spain, France, Japan. Been to Every EU and European country, and ~80 countries total. Wife is Chinese, not from the mainland.
    - mistermann 8y ago
      > The difference between him and a Chinese mainlander is at species level. In computer terms, their hardware (race) is essentially identical in capability, disregarding minor individual defects. At the software level (culture) there is tremendous variance. I often wonder what percentage of these disagreements are because of a misunderstanding of what level of the system is being discussed &/or that fact that substantial numbers of people don't/can't differentiate between race & culture.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

"in what sense EU = Europe is wrong" That one would even ask this is scary! Well ... a completely unelected Executive making laws for one. A completely unresponsive government - they do make some neat laws, but they are fully elitist, they have a total disdain for anything populist. A system wherein there is 'no way out' i.e. they will punish anyone who leave (i.e. Brexit). Have a look at Junkers statements regarding the Treaty of Lisbon referendums. Those words should have sparked a revolution, and he should have been jailed long ago. If there were alternative systems to the EU, for example, a trading block that was powerful enough to counter the EU i.e. UK, Norway, Switzerland ... then people would see that they don't have to be 'pro EU' to be 'pro European' and there would be alternatives. The EU is one country away from having to face this, because Norway, Switzerland and UK are not quite strong enough, but with one more ... then we'd see some kind of alternative. There would be 'competitive federalization' models and people would then have choice. Right now, it's a dictatorship of the elite, and there's no way at all to get the Executive branch to budge on any issues. Even literally voting 'no' on the Treaty of Lisbon was not enough. You can literally vote them down and they will march forward with their plan.

futurix 8y ago
No, it's only scary if you bought into pro-Brexit propaganda. Just like people say America instead of USA - they might say EU instead of Europe.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  No, it's scary that intelligent people accept not having an elected body which formulates the law of the land. And scary that anyone who questions that is accused of falling for 'propaganda'.
  - bolyarche 8y ago
    Interesting, did you not vote in 2014, or do you just not understand how the EU works?
keldaris 8y ago