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How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG
- _void 8y agoWould not forget this game ever, first time had to install using 5CDs, endless hours spent discovering this amazing world and story these guys have built. Hands down to Black Isle Studios for BG series, Icewind Dale and Planescape Torment.
- synthmeat 8y agoAhhh, the child of Bhaal has awoken. It is time for more... experiments. I think I spent hundreds of hours just min-maxing in Irenicus' dungeon.
- _void 8y agoYou could do this, or try to kill dual sword wield Drizzt Do'Urden.. the legend.
- ajmurmann 8y agoYep, surround with a swarm of skeletons so he can't move and kill him with crossbows.
- sano1 8y agoNo, you have to have enough members in your party to surround him before speaking to him and then remove them from your party. So neutral NPCs are surrounding him. He will just kill skeletons. But you deserve whatever is coming to you if you kill Drizzt just for some swords.
- glangdale 8y agoI always felt obligated to kill Drizzt as a matter of literary criticism.
- deagle50 8y agoBG 1 and 2 were developed by Bioware. Black Isle developed the Icewind Dale series, also great RPGs.
- _void 8y agoI can still remember Black Isle logo when game was starting in BG1, so no, they were working on first game as well :)
- rhn_mk1 8y agoAre you sure they weren't just a distributor?
- _void 8y agoOK, you may be right, wiki saying they were publishers.
- meshenna 8y agoOn the 10th anniversary of Baldur's Gate, Bioware put up a website that had quotes from a bunch of devs who worked on it. One of the people quoted said that the publisher, Interplay, kept rejecting Bioware's story drafts and ended up having their own team (Black Isle) write it. So if that is to be believed, Interplay/Black Isle did do more than just publish the game, but I haven't been able to find out exactly how involved they were in the development.
- conjectures 8y agoBG2 definitely has a place in the canon of computer games.
- ionised 8y agoThey were all great but Planescape Torment was my favourite of the lot. Such a well-written game.
- ThePadawan 8y agoIts novelization is gathering dust on my e-reader.
- the_af 8y agoMy favorite too. Such a good game, characterful and intriguing, and with awesome music too. Planescape is the best D&D setting. About the only thing that hasn't aged well are the character portraits; I wish they had been hand-drawn instead of these weird late 90s low-res 3D renders. Everything else is superb. I wonder if Nordom is still patiently waiting for the Nameless One to return...
- Sharlin 8y agoAfter almost 20 years, the original Torment is still unparalleled in many ways. It redefined what it means to tell a truly great story in a video game.
- int_19h 8y agoSpeaking of which, there's an "enhanced edition" of P:T now, that's also available on mobile devices.
- startupdiscuss 8y ago1. I love techno-nostalgic stories, and this is a good one 2. I love how none of the people were technically experienced at video games 3. I wonder if people knew back then that this was going to be such an influential game (after it was famous, but before time had passed)
- sdwisely 8y ago> I wonder if people knew back then that this was going to be such an influential game (after it was famous, but before time had passed). I don't think anyone could have picked how lasting and influential it would be. It was one of about 3 games I've ever pre-ordered though.
- eclyps19 8y agoIf you want to play a modern game that takes you back to Balder’s Gate, definitely check out Divinity Original Sin 2. I never played the first, and I was skeptical about it living up to BG 1 and 2, but after the first couple hours I was hooked. It is very much worthy of the comparison.
- Cei3oyoh 8y agoAlthough you may be sorely disappointed if playing for the story. The Divinity Original Sin 1 was basically garbage in this respect, a poor attempt at doing Discworld, with neither the vision nor talent that Pratchett had.
- paavohtl 8y agoOriginal Sin 2 is much better story-wise, though it's still a game where the best story content is in side quests and environmental storytelling. The animal quests are exceptional.
- Eclyps 8y agoI couldn't believe how many animals have such full dialogue and background. Basically all of them!
- sdwisely 8y agoPillars of Eternity has also done a fantastic job in this regard.
- kgwxd 8y agoI never had a chance to play it as a kid. I just checked GOG, looks like they only have the "Enhanced Edition" which appears to be universally hated. I looked around but finding the original seems to be as hard as finding the unenhanced Star Wars'.
- yakshaving_jgt 8y agoIgnore the haters. I'm a huge fan of the original BG2, and the EE has all the same stuff. If you don't want to try the new content, you don't have to; it's mostly self-contained. Coincidentally, I did another solo-sorcerer run through BG2 last weekend. It's still fantastic.
- kgwxd 8y agoThere's talk about some new characters and items that mess up the original "feel" of the game that can't be turned off. I'm trying to read without spoiling anything, that's just the theme I'm seeing.
- yakshaving_jgt 8y agoYou can tell those characters to go away in your initial interactions with them. I think there are three. One in the Copper Coronet, one in the Graveyard District (or was it Trademeet? I don't remember), and one in a random encounter when moving between Athkatla districts. People who say this "ruins" the game are just angry nerds being angry nerds. BG2 wasn't just great for its time; it's great now.
- kgwxd 8y agoI yell at that singing ant-eater thing to go away when it shows up in Star Wars, but it never works :) I'll be annoyed enough by the idea, even though I never played the original. I'll pick up the original if I come across it, but if not, I'll just skip it.
- gameswithgo 8y ago
- Waterluvian 8y agoOh to be a kid again. I've tried a dozen or so RPGs since my childhood and I can't get into any. It's hard to sink deep enough into a world when I have responsibilities. As a kid, the Christmas break or summer break was this magical time where I could do this. My hope is that when I retire I can become re acquainted with crpgs
- Kurtz79 8y agoCannot recommend this blog enough , where the author is playing methodically computer RPGs in chronological order (he has started in 2010 and I think its going thorugh 1992 still...) , with detailed descriptions and reviews: http://crpgaddict.blogspot.com/p/index-of-games-played-by-year.html http://crpgaddict.blogspot.com/p/index-of-games-played-by-ye... It has been scratching my nostalgic itch fairly well.
- rayalez 8y agoI highly recommend Divinity, I've discovered it only recently and it is absolutely amazing, I think this is the best game I've ever played in my life. I've been looking for something like this ever since I played fallout 2 and thought "there should be a modern version of this". This is everything I wish Fallout3/Skyrim was, such a perfect, beautiful, fun, engaging game. And I'm talking about Divinity 1, people say Divinity 2 is even better, though I haven't tried it because there's no linux version yet. It blows my mind how much love and thought they've put into it, I can't recommend it enough, I haven't loved a game so much since I was a kid, do yourself a favor and check it out!
- catfood 8y agoYou're in luck, Divinity 2 runs perfectly for me on linux with Proton (with a little bit of work). Check protondb.com.
- bmurphy1976 8y agoIt's still possible. I have 3 kids a full time job and a 1 hour driving commute each way. Despite this in the past 6 years I've still managed to play through Ultima VI, Baldur's Gate 1&2 Planescape Torment, 1/2 of Icewind Dale (finally burnt out on infinity engine), Tides of Numenera, Pillars of Eternity, Torment, Fallout 3, Fallout 4, God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, Zelda a Link to the Past, Zelda Wind Waker, Hyper Light Drifter and am 95% of my way through Divinity Original Sin and I've probably forgotten some! I squeeze in an hour or two here and there (usually at night after everybody else has gone to sleep). It can take a couple months to finish a game at this pace, but you get through them. I like the big open-ended RPGs. I feel like I can get in and complete a couple short quests or a tricky combat situation in the short time I have allotted. It makes me feel like I'm always making progress, even if it's slow going. Compared to action games where I feel like the hour I have to play is barely enough time to warm up and play effectively.
- ReptileMan 8y agoNope. It just slowed the decline. Good RPGs with high production values are extremely rare. We have witchers, divinity and pillar/tides(maybe) . Dragon age 1 was the last true Bioware RPG... Fallouts lack stories (except new vegas which mostly lacks sequesls).
- s_trumpet 8y agoI highly recommend Underrail - while the graphics are a bit simplistic (it was made entirely by a Ukrainian programmer/artist), it's the closest we've got to a modern Fallout 1/2. I'm also looking forward to Obsidian's new game The Outer Worlds, seems like New Vegas IN SPACE.
- guiltygatorade 8y agoI played Underrail a while back but didn't get too far. I do want to go through it fully at some point. Is it worthwhile? I also heard the developer is working on an expansion pack of some sort. Speaking of modern Fallout 1/2, this game just came out: https://atomrpg.com/ https://atomrpg.com/ I'm kind of waiting for the initial round of reviews / reactions before deciding on whether to give it a shot.
- ulzeraj 8y agoDragon Age suffered EA-fication along with Mass Effect. Even then I never thought it was even close to Baldur’s Gate. Part of it about being too edgy and tryhard but I did played it. My favorite part was the underground exploration part specially having Shale on your group. That was immersive AF and I did completed it in one go.
- greyfox 8y agoI remember Baldurs gate, sure. But i dont recall Baldurs gate being anywhere near as important to the survival of Computer RPG's than Diablo, and more importantly Diablo II. If i'm not mistaken DII had macintosh support out-of-box, and is still played to this day on battle.net
- ajmurmann 8y agoDiablo was great, but it's very different and really a action RPG.
- culot 8y agoI don't think many computer RPG players took Diablo or Diablo 2 seriously in that respect back then. They weren't really comparable to computer RPGs at the time. They were like console-friendly RPG-lite-type games.
- ehaliewicz2 8y agoDiablo and Diablo 2 are hack and slash action games. They don't really have anything to do with RPGs.
- the_af 8y agoTo me, the two games that "saved" the CRPG were Fallout (because I was tired of Elves and Orcs) and Planescape Torment, because of the same... and the cool setting and compelling characters.
- point78 8y agoBG2 and Xmas break... great memories
- goodbyehorses 8y agoBaldurs Gate was really good, but I think people give it too much credit. Fallout 1$2 and Planescape Torment showed what really is a narrative-driven RPG game, they deserve more attention.
- minikites 8y agoThe Fallout series isn't exactly obscure and Fallout 1 in particular is terrible. I got a game over 5 minutes into the game because I walked too far and the arbitrary timer ran out.
- mrob 8y agoThat's not an "arbitrary" timer, it's your character's core motivation. Why would somebody wander aimlessly about the desert searching for side quests when their friends and family are dying of thirst? You're supposed to be searching for the water chip, and if you pay attention to the clues you should find it in time. And it's possible to extend the time limit with no consequences in the patched version. The secondary timer is harder to justify, which is why it was extended to 13 years in the patched version (more than enough time to do everything).
- culot 8y agoIn all the many play-throughs I did on that game I don't think I ever hit the time limit. I always thought it was generous enough to enjoy the game fully. If you really want to explore [sort of] unhindered Fallout 2 takes care of that, even letting you continue to play after you finish the game.
- enraged_camel 8y ago"This game is terrible because I got game over after ignoring the primary quest" is not a good reason to hate a game...
- yakshaving_jgt 8y agoYeah, I think it kind of is. I was 10 when BG2 came out, and that’s when I first played it too. It would have taken me far longer to understand what to do in all the quests, and how to be effective in combat, than any adult. I loved that I could just enjoy playing it slowly. I remember loving the original Fallout, until it basically said “you didn’t find the water chip in time! Goodbye!” Exactly the same story with Commandos 2 vs Commandos 3.
- antisthenes 8y agoSince I don't see it mentioned, another shout out to Arcanum, one of the few RPGs that made a good attempt at creating a compelling vision of a world where magic and technology coexist. The game is not without its issues, but overall it's a solid cRPG from the same era as BGI/II
- s_trumpet 8y agoArcanum gave me permanent gnome trust issues.
- mccada 8y agoBaldur's Gate was the first RPG I played on PC. Had to play it at a friends place (he had a PC), it was a very intriguing game with the strong characterization and choices you could make in the game. Once I finally got a PC, I bought and spent many hours playing Baldur's Gate 2, which was great. This was all in New Zealand, and ironically I now live in Edmonton, Alberta where Bioware first made them. So definitely interesting to delve into the early days history of the company. Thanks for the nostalgia!
- mratsim 8y agoOh fond times, I bought BG2 the day it was out and the early adopter CD with bonus. I also spent lots of time scripting the game, like trying to replicate Balthazar IA (the monk spawn of Bhaal that lead one of the last locations in Throne of Bhaal). Sadly it seems like SCS (Sword Coast Stratagems) does not exist anymore? The IA it introduced is crazy good, though it gets tiring to beat mage and have to stock up on breach/spell-pierces.
- cannonedhamster 8y agoLooks like the whole Gibberlings website is temporarily offline, but it will be back up shortly. https://www.reddit.com/r/baldursgate/comments/a736rl/gibberlings_is_back_up/ https://www.reddit.com/r/baldursgate/comments/a736rl/gibberl...
- fredley 8y agoLiterally been replaying BG2 over the Christmas break. It's still just as good as it ever was.
- ArrayList 8y agoAnyone remember Neverwinter Nights? That was my "thing". Also, Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete was a high point in my childhood.
- ulzeraj 8y agoNWN Hordes of Underdark and NWN2 Mask of the Betrayer were fantastic. It had that “magic of the outer planes” flavor that reminds me of Planescape Torment. Weirdly enough the main character of HoTU was the one from Shadows of Udrentide (did I spelled right?). I remember meeting the ghost of one of the antagonists of the original game in hell and my character having her as a ghost girlfriend for the rest of his life. Ah... I miss those fantastic stories.
- drak0n1c 8y agoNWN Enhanced Edition is on sale for $6 on Steam, GOG, and Beamdog. $2 on Android. The multiplayer scene is having a bit of renaissance thanks to it, here's the live server list: https://nwn.beamdog.net/ https://nwn.beamdog.net/ Also, Darkness Over Daggerford is finally finished and polished by the original devs and is available as $4 DLC.
- drak0n1c 8y agoNWN Enhanced Edition is on sale for only a few bucks! Check out my other comment on on ulzeraj's reply.
- elithrar 8y agoI played NWN1 for _years_, on "Persistent Worlds" - the (usually) 40 - 80 concurrent player worlds created by the community. Battledale and Dasaria. Had some of the best gaming & storytelling experiences on those servers. Sidenote: I used to moderate PlanetNeverwinter, the NWN forum on Gamespy's ForumPlanet.
- aeze 8y agoYep, I played on Aventia - those servers were great.
- msluyter 8y agoIncidentally, BG1, BG2, & Icewind Dale are available on iOS and play quite well on an iPad pro. Perhaps even better than on a PC, as using the touch screen is easier than moving a mouse around.
- edaemon 8y agoThey're also incidentally available DRM-free for a few dollars in the GOG winter sale: https://www.gog.com/game/baldurs_gate_enhanced_edition https://www.gog.com/game/baldurs_gate_enhanced_edition https://www.gog.com/game/baldurs_gate_2_enhanced_edition https://www.gog.com/game/baldurs_gate_2_enhanced_edition https://www.gog.com/game/icewind_dale_enhanced_edition https://www.gog.com/game/icewind_dale_enhanced_edition https://www.gog.com/game/icewind_dale_2 https://www.gog.com/game/icewind_dale_2 Some friends and I just started a BG2 game last night.
- vkou 8y agoI've played BG2 on a tablet, and the interface is... Finicky. Playable, but everything takes much longer then it does on PC.
- int_19h 8y agoPlanescape: Torment, as well.
- fuball63 8y agoBaldur's Gate was really difficult as a kid. Without fully understanding how the stat system worked or the pause/play combat, my siblings and I really struggled with it. What we would do to overcome the difficulty was ramp our characters level when starting the game. In Candlekeep Inn, we would buy as many darts as we could afford, and throw them at the sorcerer in the lobby. Before he could retaliate, we would run up the stairs to safety. Repeat this a few dozen times, and he eventually dies, and you get a huge XP boost. Then you export the character, start a new game, and do the same thing. One time we did this enough to be able to kill the character's father before leaving Candlekeep. Good times.
- ryanjodonnell 8y agoHas anyone that played BG also played Dragon Age Trilogy? Is it a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate? I loved BG1/BG2 in middleschool/highschool.
- guiltygatorade 8y agoThe first Dragon Age is arguably a spiritual successor. Dragon Age II was largely panned by Bioware fans as it got a lot more action oriented and less RPG/choice driven. Dragon Age: Inquisition is basically unrecognizable to Baldur's Gate days, as mechanically it's more similar to Mass Effect 2 than old time RPGs. That game was 90% pulp fantasy open world quest completer with decent combat/skill syngergy. But the last 10% uncovered some story bits that really made me go "wow I want to know more". Looks like the sequel is in the works.
- Puer 8y agoMy greatest accomplishment as a kid was beating BG2 on "Insane" difficulty as a solo character. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa8JV3z-Oeo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa8JV3z-Oeo I must have played through the game at least two dozen times and I never got tired of it. To this day it's still my favorite game of all time. Modern RPGs just don't compare in terms of storytelling and gameplay experience, in my opinion.
- davidivadavid 8y agoUsed to feel the same but I think Divinity 2 in co-op mode edges it for me now.
- vegardx 8y agoCompletely unrelated, but... The story was ofte a little hard to follow when I was a kid, but using a dictionary I was able to not just understand and progress throughout the game, but I also learned a lot of English in the process. It all started with Transport Tycoon Deluxe, then Age of Empires. But it was with Baldur's Gate things really started to make sense. Because of these games I was reading and sort of speaking English before we even started having any English classes. Good times.
- guiltygatorade 8y agoI learned English by trying to figure out how to navigate menus in Warlords II and Castles II. I played Baldur's Gate and barely understood the plot. A few years later, I eventually got to Planescape: Torment and actually managed to understand it. If you love TTD, you should check out http://www.openttd.org/en/ http://www.openttd.org/en/ if you haven't already.
- vegardx 8y agoOpenTTD is amazing. A group of friends of mine often have online games over the Christmas holidays. The only time everyone are able to play at the same time. I have also been playing a little CorsixTH, the open source reimplementation of Theme Hospital. Theme Hospital came with Swedish translations, which are close enough to Norwegian that I was able to understand it. No dictionary needed!
- Al-Khwarizmi 8y agoOK, so in 1995 there were few computer RPGs. True. In fact I distinctly remember myself at that time, as a huge CRPG fan, thinking that they were bad times for PC RPGs, and hoping for better times. But 1996 was the year of The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall, one of the best RPGs of all time (IMO, way better than Baldur's) that would later continue into a saga that is still top notch today. In 1997, Fallout came out. I'm not personally a big fan of this saga, but its enormous success and influence in CRPGs is undeniable. In 1998, apart from Baldur's Gate, we had Fallout II and Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven, a great game that renewed the legendary Might and Magic franchise with a new engine. So no. You may like Baldur's Gate a lot (IMO it's a good game but way overrated) but it didn't save anything, and the image given by the article of being the first brave developers who dared publish a CRPG after a draught is just plain false.
- tomc1985 8y agoI do remember feeling of being in something of RPG drought when Baldur's Gate came along. At least I believe that was the sentiment expressed by PC Games magazine, which I was reading pretty heavily at the time. I don't think ES or Fallout were on my radar at that time but you're the first person I've heard with very positive opinions of Daggerfall; most of the ES nostalgics seem to pine for Morrowind. Baldur's Gate had the D&D license, though, and that gave it a lot of weight and staying power for people who weren't already into CRPGs. I think it also left a much larger impact than any of the games you've mentioned save maybe Fallout II. Part of the draw for me were those D&D rules; I was pretty heavy into tabletop RPGs at the time.
- muro 8y agoDaggerfall was a buggy mess or randomly generated, yet still always the same dungeons. No reason whatsoever to walk in the always-same, never ending landscape. The plot was good, the scale huge. Morrowind fixed all of that - much smaller scale, less generated stuff, excellent plot, few (er) bugs - it was actually possible to finish the game. Landscape with purpose, it was actually interesting to walk and explore.
- 8y ago
- lordnacho 8y agoWhen I think about a hard software project, this game is the what I think of every time. It is like it says in the article: you're not just making a movie, you're inventing the camera. By the sound of it they went right from DirectX to build the engine, a huge task in itself, and then writing the story with the engine. And of course when you try to write the upper layer, you're going to discover you forgot something in the lower layer. Often something bad that makes you have to re-architect. In my own line of work it there's also layers like exchange integrations and strategies, but you're still reasonably close in terms of domains of thinking. With games you're both performance optimizing c++ code and trying to tell a compelling story at the same time. And you can't skip the artistic side. You have to have a proper story. The characters have to have correct looking clothes and weapons. NPCs need to have the right speech coded, and they need to drop the right loot for the plot to work. Maps have to seem expansive yet still seem coherent to the atmosphere.
- mancerayder 8y agoI long for a proliferation of 'adventure' or slower RPGs, instead of the FPS-type we see so much of. One advantage of the former is there's often a party component, like the old-school Wasteland (or the new Wasteland II), old Bard's Tale, etc. Or perhaps the party component fell out of favor for a different reason? I've quite enjoyed Witcher 3's atmosphere and story, but there's something hack-and-slash about the combat and the skill system that makes one not really want to explore the different skill paths. For example, almost everyone will deploy a large fraction of their points in strong and fast sword attacks -- because it's a hack and slash. Is it there's not a lot of demand for RPGs, or they're too expensive to make, or the old-school creators are replaced with a younger generation? Don't get me wrong, Witcher 3 and the late GTA series are great games, but they're not old school RPG's in their style of play: some of the missions are gauntlet runs (somewhat linear), and the energy is fast-paced and requires more reflexes than they require planning.
- xvector 8y agoHorizon: Zero Dawn is one of the best RPGs I have played in a long time, and you can definitely plan out your combat.
- guiltygatorade 8y agoOld one but a good one -- check out Dragon's Dogma It's an open world RPG with Monster Hunter combat mechanics (and tbh I think also influenced how HZD's excellent combat is designed) You also need to plan your equipment / consumables before you go take on certain areas in the world. It's a flawed gem but I love it to death.
- tomc1985 8y agoI remember lamenting the fact that nearly every party-based RPG seemed to have smaller parties with each sequel... it makes me wonder if they don't focus-group well or something.
- LoSboccacc 8y agoI think it's partly to control difficulty better. In BG if you build your party neglecting some key concepts (a dps, a tank, crowd control spells etc) you can very well find yourself unable to continue at certain challenge (i.e. the for golem room if you focus too much on hth, out the first dragon in icewind.. memory about the specifics faded now pardon any confusion) and basically you do well up to the challenge then you can't progress anymore. Also a smaller party with less variations in roles is much easier to do storytelling with.
- yawz 8y agoI've never been a hard-core gamer, but I've always loved RPGs. I think I'm showing my age by not liking the more recents games and having nostalgic feelings towards that era's games. Baldur's Gate is one of the last games that I've truly enjoyed playing. I haven't tried BG 2, though. Maybe this is a sign, and it can be my present to myself for this holiday season :).
- anoplus 8y agoGame experience is so much more than cutting edge graphics. From the many games I played in high-school, this one remembered as particularly charming (literally). I listened to the soundtrack on youtube recently. Beautiful. Maybe a good game for retirement as-well. EDIT: I wonder if I am the only one noticed the Beholders' cave shape is a perfect Nazi swastika
- yakshaving_jgt 8y agoOh, yeah! You’re right! I mean, not perfect, and it’s backwards, but otherwise pretty close.
- z3t4 8y agoThat where some crazy years for PC gaming. I like that they took the naive approach eg. large images instead of tiles. I really enjoyed walking around in the woods exploring and searching for dungeons.
- ConcernedCoder 8y agoBaldur's Gate on the Apple ][ was cutting-edge at the time... I played it for hours on end.
- the8472 8y ago> The video-game review site GameRankings has indexed at least one review for 27 RPGs released in 1995. The list appears incomplete. It doesn't even cover albion.
- electricslpnsld 8y agoI recall reading somewhere that two days before shipping the game was crashing in release mode builds, so the binary that shipped was in debug! Apparently a big part of the performance increase in BG2 came from fixing this bug.
- dwighttk 8y agoPeople probably haven't given a shout out to Knights of the Old Republic because it came out almost a decade after Bauldur, but I saw a bunch of people listing their favorite CRPGs and KotOR and KotOR II should be mentioned. (I also like Morrowind and Skyrim)