4 ms·
FBI domain takeovers is abuse of power, pure and simple.
by wolco 8y ago
FBI domain takeovers is abuse of power, pure and simple.
- ddtaylor 8y agoAlso doesn't affect any users on Tor, which for that kind of thing is a lot.
- jammygit 8y agoPardon my ignorance, but what about Tor keeps the FBI from being able to take a site down? Is it distributed or something?
- ddtaylor 8y agoLaw enforcement does one of two things to "take down" a site: 1. Seize servers via an IP address 2. Seize a domain record itself and redirect it Both of these "attacks" are not possible with Tor hidden services, because a.) there is no IP associated with the hidden service (although Tor in theory is subject to traffic correlation) and b.) there is no domain record that can be redirected unless you actually have the corresponding private key since Tor hidden service addresses are the public component of that keypair.
- lostgame 8y agoWell, the obvious difficulty is in nailing the specific IP address, and thusly the location of the server hosting the content, due to the obfuscation that TOR provides. It’s essentially the same reason you’re safe browsing it. The issue, however, is that web sites always need to be hosted on a physical server somewhere, and all it takes is one social media account or email that gives away some aspect of your identity or location for them to find it - assuming you’re doing something illegal of course. There’s nothing inherently illegal with hosting TOR sites. :P That doesn’t mean that shutdowns don’t happen, though. The FBI recently shut down a number of TOR sites with illegal content.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- saagarjha 8y agoHow does the FBI do this, anyways? Politely ask the domain name registrar to hand them the domain?
- ceejayoz 8y agoThey get a court order for the registrar to hand it over.
- wolco 8y agoThey seize it at the root level. If the register was outside of the US a court order may or may not be honoured.
- ceejayoz 8y agoNo reason you can't check which registrar they're using first. For example: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/05/fbi-seizes-server-russia-allegedly-used-to-infect-500000-consumer-routers/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/05/fbi-s... > The takedown stems from an investigation that started no later than last August and culminated in a court order issued Wednesday directing domain registrar Verisign to turn over control of ToKnowAll.com.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- dylz 8y agoVerisign owns the entire .com space
- krageon 8y agoA US court order definitely won't be, but they could get a local one. It would of course take a bit longer.
- stef25 8y ago
- vertexFarm 8y agoI also have to wonder if any of the DDOS services used by Verizon, MPAA, and other US corporations to attack IP violators (or in Verizon's case, their own comment pages) are affected. It's illegal, but somehow it never seems to be prosecuted or stopped when it's being done by the right people.
- orcdork 8y agoAnd denial of service attacks isn't?
- lern_too_spel 8y agoThe government has long been able to seize property used in a crime. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_Unit...
- cheeze 8y agoAnd property that had nothing to do with a crime.
- wolco 8y agowhy would you apply us law to global top level domain extensions?
- ashelmire 8y agoBecause the US created and still largely controls the internet, in practice if not in ideology. Also we have the largest military and law enforcement reach on the planet.
- cf498 8y ago> Also we have the largest military and law enforcement reach on the planet. I think the modern equivalent of gunboat diplomacy fit the term abuse of power rather well, wouldnt you agree?
- redavni 8y agoPretty sure that guy you are responding to didn't. There are countries other than America out there that also think crime is a bad thing and are happy to cooperate to stop it.
- ddtaylor 8y agoIt's also worth noting that Civil asset forfeiture is becoming more controversial because of perceived misuse. An extreme example would be simply carrying large quantities of cash with no other indicators of illegal activity have been used in the past to initiate forfeiture. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mevVt5sHDNA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mevVt5sHDNA
- make3 8y agoif they get a court order, it's really not. you shouldn't be allowed to sell criminal services freely just because it's the internet
- wolco 8y agoThe FBI should not apply American rules on a global populatioj. .com and other top level extensions are not us country domain extensions they are global.
- krustyburger 8y agoIn the absence of any international organization with the power to remove criminal sites, the U.S. government has every obligation to act. Provided, of course, that there is a demonstrated and ongoing crime involved.
- astura 8y agoThe US (and many other governments) claim jurisdiction over crimes committed against their citizens as well as crimes committed by their citizens no matter the physical location. If you think a country protection its own citizens is "abuse," well, then we'll have to agree to disagree.
- cronix 8y ago> The FBI should not apply American rules on a global populatioj. .com and other top level extensions are not us country domain extensions they are global. I'm pretty sure they went through ICANN, which would absolutely (and should) support taking down criminals and criminal services from the internet, that they control. There are international laws and treaties. I don't think you'll find too many countries who would agree that it's ok to sell DDoS services. There is no legitimate use for them. Are you suggesting that that position is strictly an American one? I tend to think it's a global one...
- ddtaylor 8y agoYou may agree today with how that attack is being used, but history is a good indicator that you'll likely not always agree with what the government does or how it misuses it's power. Long term I expect decentralized domain name solutions to replace the currently vulnerable ones.
- shard972 8y agoWhat about when companies like google and godaddy just decides to confiscate domain names?
- a13n 8y agoYeah the world is really a worse off place because they took a bunch of DDoS sites down. What a bummer.
- jlgaddis 8y ago"Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me."