5 ms·

The Day They Came for the Governor

49 points by com2kid 8y ago

pm90 8y ago
Interesting. I wonder if this is how a US president would be arrested as well.
- paganel 8y ago
  I don’t think any US president is going to be arrested anytime soon, the best/worst (depending on your political affiliations) that could happen is a repeat of how Nixon went away. Afaik Nixon still had quite a big popular support when he was forced to make way, and I think that the people behind his fall thought that antagonizing his supporters by putting him behind bars would have created unnecessary political and geo-strategic turbulences. On the other hand, I think a president with low approval points is not worth being arrested while in office, he’s a sitting duck anyway, his hands are tied and he’d only have to see his mandate through without creating that much of a fuss.
  - rootusrootus 8y ago
    Nixon's approval ratings were below 25% before he resigned. That's getting pretty close to what I expect is the floor (one in five is a pretty low bar and not a bad estimate for the number of loons among average citizens).
    - paganel 8y ago
      TIL. Yeah, I looked it up now, he seems to have had quite a fall, as one year before his resignation he was still at about 60%.
      - mikestew 8y ago
        T'was a different time. Remembering that not only was Nixon elected, he beat Humphrey by popular vote and electoral, and he won re-election. He did some popular things (EPA, for example), so we weren't ready to hate him just yet. Though I was young, politics didn't strike me as much of a team sport as it is today. Watergate, though, showed us what politicians are capable of. Though many might have suspected, the 70s were the first time it showed up in your living room on TV as live-and-in-color proof. Today, thanks in part to Watergate, we have a much more cynical populous and so, say, Trump probably won't have as far to fall.
        paulie_a 8y ago
        Also he ended the Vietnam war as promised. Whether that was the best thing can be left up for debate, but he delivered.
        Latteland 8y ago
        Remember war crimes on his orders, The Bombing of Cambodia, thousands killed, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu.
        paulie_a 8y ago
        Hence why i said other things are left to debate. My scope was that he ended the war... nothing more. It's a fact I was pointing out. A single specific fact.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
    - shard972 8y ago
      Consider too that macron is currently below 25% approval and doesn't seem ready to resign so I'm not sure how much approval plays into this.
  - monkeydreams 8y ago
    > I don’t think any US president is going to be arrested anytime soon I agree, sadly. The problem lies with the fact that Trump (and the Republicans by extension) have caused so much damage to the roots and branches of democracy that cutting them out altogether will cause terminal damage to many of the institutions on which democracy relies. If the FBI can cause the downfall of a President, then they will become the weapon wielded, rightly or wrongly, against the next President. The best outcome we can hope for is a systemic review of what has lead us to this rot, along with indictments and jail time for key, non-government, people. Political donations, media regulation, espionage - all of this needs to be reviewed, laws changed where appropriate and people charged where necessary. Trump's arrest would change nothing, except to ensure that the FBI would be deployed by corrupt men against a (relatively) honest President. A root-and-branch cull of the conditions which made Trump possible will prevent the next Trump.
    - krapp 8y ago
      > A root-and-branch cull of the conditions which made Trump possible will prevent the next Trump. The conditions which made Trump possible were the American people believing the roots and branches of American democracy were already rotten to the core. There's no "root and branch cull" to prevent the people wanting to vote in Nero just to watch Rome burn.
      - Latteland 8y ago
        The FBI isn't what is bringing Trump down, the FBI has always seemed to be mostly conservative to moderate Republican leaning law and order types. It's the rule of law and the ability to have an independent investigation of the president. I never thought that the political parties on both sides would be so swayed by the president that they wouldn't be able to adequately control or counter illegal or crazy actions. I've at least lost that naivety. Maybe Trump is our Nero, but it was such a thin slice of crazy that got him elected. Some people voted for him because they liked the traditional ideas of the republican party, of his rhetoric about 'others' keeping us down, racism, people cheating the us. But I think there was also a sizable group of people that saw their future in trouble, the local town's factory shrinking or closing, young people moving away from their farm country, their local town with shuttered shops - those people wanted someone to give them hope. HRC wasn't doing a good job of engaging with them, even though I think she did have programs and intentions to help people. Bernie Sanders did have more outreach. I don't think most people wanted us to burn like Nero, they just wanted a change that might help them.
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  It's unclear if that can even happen while he's in office. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/29/us/politics/a-constitutional-puzzle-can-the-president-be-indicted.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/29/us/politics/a-constitutio... > The prevailing view among most legal experts is no. They say the president is immune from prosecution so long as he is in office.
  - elicash 8y ago
    Actually, it's happened! To President Grant, for speeding in his horse-drawn carriage. It's a great story: https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2018/12/16/police-officer-who-arrested-president/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2018/12/16/police-off...
    - ceejayoz 8y ago
      It does seem to indicate that the President was able to escape prosecution, though: > The judge imposed “heavy fines” and a “scathing rebuke” to the speeding drivers, who didn’t include the president. He didn’t show up for court. (I had no idea speeding laws predated cars - and speedometers! - incidentally.)
- awinder 8y ago
  https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2018/12/16/police-officer-who-arrested-president/?utm_term=.51866a024939 https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2018/12/16/police-off...
BeetleB 8y ago
When it comes to Illinois, saying "The governor" is not enough. Which governor? 3 of the last 7 governors spent time in prison.
- Nasrudith 8y ago
  Brings to mind the very multifacted interpretation quote from Nelson Mandella - "In my country we go to prison first and then become President."
- ricree 8y ago
  Only one of whom was governor when he was arrested, though.
dmitrygr 8y ago
A joke in illinois is that you never ask a governor what he will do after his term is up. There is only one path: jail for corruption.
R_haterade 8y ago
This is an interesting glimpse into the mindset of feds. Underscored the old saying that the police are never there to help you.
- nradov 8y ago
  I've been helped by police several times.

49 points by com2kid 8y ago

pm90 8y ago

Interesting. I wonder if this is how a US president would be arrested as well.

paganel 8y ago
I don’t think any US president is going to be arrested anytime soon, the best/worst (depending on your political affiliations) that could happen is a repeat of how Nixon went away. Afaik Nixon still had quite a big popular support when he was forced to make way, and I think that the people behind his fall thought that antagonizing his supporters by putting him behind bars would have created unnecessary political and geo-strategic turbulences. On the other hand, I think a president with low approval points is not worth being arrested while in office, he’s a sitting duck anyway, his hands are tied and he’d only have to see his mandate through without creating that much of a fuss.
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  Nixon's approval ratings were below 25% before he resigned. That's getting pretty close to what I expect is the floor (one in five is a pretty low bar and not a bad estimate for the number of loons among average citizens).
  - paganel 8y ago
    TIL. Yeah, I looked it up now, he seems to have had quite a fall, as one year before his resignation he was still at about 60%.
    - mikestew 8y ago
      T'was a different time. Remembering that not only was Nixon elected, he beat Humphrey by popular vote and electoral, and he won re-election. He did some popular things (EPA, for example), so we weren't ready to hate him just yet. Though I was young, politics didn't strike me as much of a team sport as it is today. Watergate, though, showed us what politicians are capable of. Though many might have suspected, the 70s were the first time it showed up in your living room on TV as live-and-in-color proof. Today, thanks in part to Watergate, we have a much more cynical populous and so, say, Trump probably won't have as far to fall.
      - paulie_a 8y ago
        Also he ended the Vietnam war as promised. Whether that was the best thing can be left up for debate, but he delivered.
        Latteland 8y ago
        Remember war crimes on his orders, The Bombing of Cambodia, thousands killed, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu.
        paulie_a 8y ago
        Hence why i said other things are left to debate. My scope was that he ended the war... nothing more. It's a fact I was pointing out. A single specific fact.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
  - shard972 8y ago
    Consider too that macron is currently below 25% approval and doesn't seem ready to resign so I'm not sure how much approval plays into this.
- monkeydreams 8y ago
  > I don’t think any US president is going to be arrested anytime soon I agree, sadly. The problem lies with the fact that Trump (and the Republicans by extension) have caused so much damage to the roots and branches of democracy that cutting them out altogether will cause terminal damage to many of the institutions on which democracy relies. If the FBI can cause the downfall of a President, then they will become the weapon wielded, rightly or wrongly, against the next President. The best outcome we can hope for is a systemic review of what has lead us to this rot, along with indictments and jail time for key, non-government, people. Political donations, media regulation, espionage - all of this needs to be reviewed, laws changed where appropriate and people charged where necessary. Trump's arrest would change nothing, except to ensure that the FBI would be deployed by corrupt men against a (relatively) honest President. A root-and-branch cull of the conditions which made Trump possible will prevent the next Trump.
  - krapp 8y ago
    > A root-and-branch cull of the conditions which made Trump possible will prevent the next Trump. The conditions which made Trump possible were the American people believing the roots and branches of American democracy were already rotten to the core. There's no "root and branch cull" to prevent the people wanting to vote in Nero just to watch Rome burn.
    - Latteland 8y ago
      The FBI isn't what is bringing Trump down, the FBI has always seemed to be mostly conservative to moderate Republican leaning law and order types. It's the rule of law and the ability to have an independent investigation of the president. I never thought that the political parties on both sides would be so swayed by the president that they wouldn't be able to adequately control or counter illegal or crazy actions. I've at least lost that naivety. Maybe Trump is our Nero, but it was such a thin slice of crazy that got him elected. Some people voted for him because they liked the traditional ideas of the republican party, of his rhetoric about 'others' keeping us down, racism, people cheating the us. But I think there was also a sizable group of people that saw their future in trouble, the local town's factory shrinking or closing, young people moving away from their farm country, their local town with shuttered shops - those people wanted someone to give them hope. HRC wasn't doing a good job of engaging with them, even though I think she did have programs and intentions to help people. Bernie Sanders did have more outreach. I don't think most people wanted us to burn like Nero, they just wanted a change that might help them.
ceejayoz 8y ago
It's unclear if that can even happen while he's in office. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/29/us/politics/a-constitutional-puzzle-can-the-president-be-indicted.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/29/us/politics/a-constitutio... > The prevailing view among most legal experts is no. They say the president is immune from prosecution so long as he is in office.
- elicash 8y ago
  Actually, it's happened! To President Grant, for speeding in his horse-drawn carriage. It's a great story: https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2018/12/16/police-officer-who-arrested-president/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2018/12/16/police-off...
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    It does seem to indicate that the President was able to escape prosecution, though: > The judge imposed “heavy fines” and a “scathing rebuke” to the speeding drivers, who didn’t include the president. He didn’t show up for court. (I had no idea speeding laws predated cars - and speedometers! - incidentally.)
awinder 8y ago
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2018/12/16/police-officer-who-arrested-president/?utm_term=.51866a024939 https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2018/12/16/police-off...

BeetleB 8y ago

When it comes to Illinois, saying "The governor" is not enough. Which governor? 3 of the last 7 governors spent time in prison.

Nasrudith 8y ago
Brings to mind the very multifacted interpretation quote from Nelson Mandella - "In my country we go to prison first and then become President."
ricree 8y ago
Only one of whom was governor when he was arrested, though.

dmitrygr 8y ago

A joke in illinois is that you never ask a governor what he will do after his term is up. There is only one path: jail for corruption.

R_haterade 8y ago

This is an interesting glimpse into the mindset of feds. Underscored the old saying that the police are never there to help you.

nradov 8y ago
I've been helped by police several times.