7 ms·

It's good to see the UK finally turning into the authoritarian dictatorship Orwell knew it could be. Good for them!

setquk 8y ago
We're getting pretty good at being examples to the rest of the world of what not to do recently. Might as well sink our ship in style.
baby 8y ago
I just want to bring up a difference that I've noticed living in both London and the US (Chicago and San Francisco). Note that I am also not trying to make a point here, as to what is better for a city. I think it's much more complex than spying on your citizen. Just trying to bring my perspective and things I've seen: London is one the safest city I've lived in (along with Beijing). Chicago and San Francisco are the most unsafe cities I've lived in. People often don't realize this there, it's just that they have been desensitized to it. I've seen countless accidents in the US, people getting bullied or mugged, cars getting broken in, homeless people everywhere (sometimes shooting themselves up with syringes). Walking in the streets at night can be really dangerous. Most people avoid public transport here and take uber. On the other side you have London. You'd see single girls walking alone in the streets at 4am. Everyone takes the public transport, never seen anyone fight, almost no homeless people, everybody loves the cops. It's a different world.
- paganel 8y ago
  > On the other side you have London. You'd see single girls walking alone in the streets at 4am. Everyone takes the public transport, never seen anyone fight, almost no homeless people, everybody loves the cops. It's a different world. You must have lived in the nicer parts of London, perhaps. I have a friend who has moved to London 6 months ago (her bf was already living there) and she told me that she's afraid of leaving her home all by herself after 8PM. She told me that while walking down the street she can "feel" the looks of the people whose religion I won't mention because I will probably get a ban, take that as you like.
  - weego 8y ago
    I'll take it as one uninformed bigot spreading the word of another uninformed bigot.
  - EngineerBetter 8y ago
    Your friend's problem is that she's a bigot.
    - paganel 8y ago
      She had friends of the same religion here in Eastern Europe, but they were the kind of people that were staying at after parties at 7 in the morning. The people she now tells me about don’t look like they have shared a drink with a woman late at night anytime during their life. It’s easy to accuse someone of bigotism when you haven’t interacted directly with any of the talked-about people.
      - michaelgrafl 8y ago
        Then you're the one who's bigoted for bringing up religion in the first place, when that's not really the reason for your friend to be scared.
      - scottlamb 8y ago
        I'm going to guess that the religion in question is Islam, which forbids alcohol. Her being okay with the kind of Muslim who isn't religious enough to follow this proscription doesn't disprove her being a bigot. "Doesn't look like they have shared a drink with a woman late at night anytime during their life" is a poor basis for being afraid of someone. Many don't choose that lifestyle. Some will judge you for choosing it. Fewer will physically attack you for choosing it... If they're leering at her (she said she can "feel" their looks, which could mean looks of moral judgement or of objectification/lust), I can start to understand why she'd be afraid. But there is a subjective element to interpreting others' body language, and bringing religion into the complaint makes me think prejudice might be coloring that.
        8y ago
- Maken 8y ago
  Have you ever been in other European cities?
  - baby 8y ago
    Pretty much all over the place. Lived in a few different places in France. It's usually relatively safe, except in suburbs.
- yakshaving_jgt 8y ago
  > never seen anyone fight, almost no homeless people …Do you live in a different London from me? You must be talking about London, Ontario, right? There were at least three major Islamic terror attacks around my address in London in the past few years. I live just by Borough Market. There were the three guys who drove the van into Borough Market and stabbed people, killing eight. There was the guy who drove his car into people on Westminster Bridge, killing five and injuring 50. There was also the murder of Lee Rigby in Woolwich, in the street in the middle of the day outside a primary school. Lee Rigby was a colleague of my best friend. My best friend and I were walking exactly where the murder was to take place a few weeks prior. I'm also quite shocked you don't notice the homeless in London. Before I started my career in IT — when I was a broke musician — I used to eat with them every day. Hare Krishna feed the homeless most evenings in Holborn, and at the time on some nights you could get leftover Pret a Manger meals outside the Rymans on the Strand. There's almost always people sleeping rough around London Bridge, and in many places all throughout the city. And if you enjoy the nightlife you're bound to see at least some street violence occasionally.
  - baby 8y ago
    > major Islamic terror attacks just lol. They were a few crimes, nothing major, and nobody in London really cared or seemed to be affected. Please stop spreading FUD. > I'm also quite shocked you don't notice the homeless in London Have you been to San Francisco, Chicago or LA? There is really no comparison.
    - yakshaving_jgt 8y ago
      …Nobody seemed to be affected? Are you on drugs? People died. And yes, I have been to SF and LA. I have walked through the tent cities and seen the people defecating in the streets. That was never the question, and your whataboutery is not constructive.
      - baby 8y ago
        Regular crime in the city, I haven't even heard of people talking about it. Maybe in the few days following the attack yes, but come on. That's just FUD.
- Latteland 8y ago
  It's not possible to believe London got better because of all the cameras added the last few years (which accomplish little or nothing). It hasn't gotten safer because of surveillance. Just like in the us, the fact that the border patrol takes people's phones at a high rate hasn't made it any safer. It's just improved spying.
- michaelgrafl 8y ago
  I've been to London twice, and compared with Vienna I felt less safe, especially when riding the Tube as opposed to the U-Bahn. Even Berlin felt chill to me in comparison. Not that my feelings are a good indication of anything, but comparing any European city to San Francisco and Chicago will leave you with a similar conclusion regarding personal safety.
- aeesop 8y ago
  i disagree https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/20/death-in-westminster-a-wake-up-call-on-homelessness https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/20/death-in-wes...
- ionised 8y ago
  This is not the London I know of.
starbeast 8y ago
We took bids from a variety of suppliers and it turns out that bespoke and competent totalitarianism in Orwell's '1984' model is rather expensive and will restrict how much money will be available for the minister to spend on grouse shooting in the Scottish Highlands. So we took the liberty of soliciting a range of bids at different price points and as it turns out, G4S brought up a lovely little offering that they have titled 'Central Services from Terry Gilliam's Brazil'. It is both cheap and looks the part, but most importantly, doesn't rely on anything actually working or anybody doing anything that could reasonably be described as work, especially at the top end, thus freeing up far more time for golf.
- ironic_ali 8y ago
  You, I like you. One thing I believe you missed is the the promise from G4S of a cushy 'director' role for said minister when politics has run its course, for said minister....
  - starbeast 8y ago
    Ahh yes, well it is a jolly little number that, but be aware not to discuss it with your colleagues until you are well out of department. We don't want it coming up in committee, now do we? You don't want it becoming a wash.

We're getting pretty good at being examples to the rest of the world of what not to do recently. Might as well sink our ship in style.

baby 8y ago

I just want to bring up a difference that I've noticed living in both London and the US (Chicago and San Francisco). Note that I am also not trying to make a point here, as to what is better for a city. I think it's much more complex than spying on your citizen. Just trying to bring my perspective and things I've seen: London is one the safest city I've lived in (along with Beijing). Chicago and San Francisco are the most unsafe cities I've lived in. People often don't realize this there, it's just that they have been desensitized to it. I've seen countless accidents in the US, people getting bullied or mugged, cars getting broken in, homeless people everywhere (sometimes shooting themselves up with syringes). Walking in the streets at night can be really dangerous. Most people avoid public transport here and take uber. On the other side you have London. You'd see single girls walking alone in the streets at 4am. Everyone takes the public transport, never seen anyone fight, almost no homeless people, everybody loves the cops. It's a different world.

paganel 8y ago
> On the other side you have London. You'd see single girls walking alone in the streets at 4am. Everyone takes the public transport, never seen anyone fight, almost no homeless people, everybody loves the cops. It's a different world. You must have lived in the nicer parts of London, perhaps. I have a friend who has moved to London 6 months ago (her bf was already living there) and she told me that she's afraid of leaving her home all by herself after 8PM. She told me that while walking down the street she can "feel" the looks of the people whose religion I won't mention because I will probably get a ban, take that as you like.
- weego 8y ago
  I'll take it as one uninformed bigot spreading the word of another uninformed bigot.
- EngineerBetter 8y ago
  Your friend's problem is that she's a bigot.
  - paganel 8y ago
    She had friends of the same religion here in Eastern Europe, but they were the kind of people that were staying at after parties at 7 in the morning. The people she now tells me about don’t look like they have shared a drink with a woman late at night anytime during their life. It’s easy to accuse someone of bigotism when you haven’t interacted directly with any of the talked-about people.
    - michaelgrafl 8y ago
      Then you're the one who's bigoted for bringing up religion in the first place, when that's not really the reason for your friend to be scared.
    - scottlamb 8y ago
      I'm going to guess that the religion in question is Islam, which forbids alcohol. Her being okay with the kind of Muslim who isn't religious enough to follow this proscription doesn't disprove her being a bigot. "Doesn't look like they have shared a drink with a woman late at night anytime during their life" is a poor basis for being afraid of someone. Many don't choose that lifestyle. Some will judge you for choosing it. Fewer will physically attack you for choosing it... If they're leering at her (she said she can "feel" their looks, which could mean looks of moral judgement or of objectification/lust), I can start to understand why she'd be afraid. But there is a subjective element to interpreting others' body language, and bringing religion into the complaint makes me think prejudice might be coloring that.
      - 8y ago
Maken 8y ago
Have you ever been in other European cities?
- baby 8y ago
  Pretty much all over the place. Lived in a few different places in France. It's usually relatively safe, except in suburbs.
yakshaving_jgt 8y ago
> never seen anyone fight, almost no homeless people …Do you live in a different London from me? You must be talking about London, Ontario, right? There were at least three major Islamic terror attacks around my address in London in the past few years. I live just by Borough Market. There were the three guys who drove the van into Borough Market and stabbed people, killing eight. There was the guy who drove his car into people on Westminster Bridge, killing five and injuring 50. There was also the murder of Lee Rigby in Woolwich, in the street in the middle of the day outside a primary school. Lee Rigby was a colleague of my best friend. My best friend and I were walking exactly where the murder was to take place a few weeks prior. I'm also quite shocked you don't notice the homeless in London. Before I started my career in IT — when I was a broke musician — I used to eat with them every day. Hare Krishna feed the homeless most evenings in Holborn, and at the time on some nights you could get leftover Pret a Manger meals outside the Rymans on the Strand. There's almost always people sleeping rough around London Bridge, and in many places all throughout the city. And if you enjoy the nightlife you're bound to see at least some street violence occasionally.
- baby 8y ago
  > major Islamic terror attacks just lol. They were a few crimes, nothing major, and nobody in London really cared or seemed to be affected. Please stop spreading FUD. > I'm also quite shocked you don't notice the homeless in London Have you been to San Francisco, Chicago or LA? There is really no comparison.
  - yakshaving_jgt 8y ago
    …Nobody seemed to be affected? Are you on drugs? People died. And yes, I have been to SF and LA. I have walked through the tent cities and seen the people defecating in the streets. That was never the question, and your whataboutery is not constructive.
    - baby 8y ago
      Regular crime in the city, I haven't even heard of people talking about it. Maybe in the few days following the attack yes, but come on. That's just FUD.
Latteland 8y ago
It's not possible to believe London got better because of all the cameras added the last few years (which accomplish little or nothing). It hasn't gotten safer because of surveillance. Just like in the us, the fact that the border patrol takes people's phones at a high rate hasn't made it any safer. It's just improved spying.
michaelgrafl 8y ago
I've been to London twice, and compared with Vienna I felt less safe, especially when riding the Tube as opposed to the U-Bahn. Even Berlin felt chill to me in comparison. Not that my feelings are a good indication of anything, but comparing any European city to San Francisco and Chicago will leave you with a similar conclusion regarding personal safety.
aeesop 8y ago
i disagree https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/20/death-in-westminster-a-wake-up-call-on-homelessness https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/20/death-in-wes...
ionised 8y ago
This is not the London I know of.

starbeast 8y ago

We took bids from a variety of suppliers and it turns out that bespoke and competent totalitarianism in Orwell's '1984' model is rather expensive and will restrict how much money will be available for the minister to spend on grouse shooting in the Scottish Highlands. So we took the liberty of soliciting a range of bids at different price points and as it turns out, G4S brought up a lovely little offering that they have titled 'Central Services from Terry Gilliam's Brazil'. It is both cheap and looks the part, but most importantly, doesn't rely on anything actually working or anybody doing anything that could reasonably be described as work, especially at the top end, thus freeing up far more time for golf.

ironic_ali 8y ago
You, I like you. One thing I believe you missed is the the promise from G4S of a cushy 'director' role for said minister when politics has run its course, for said minister....
- starbeast 8y ago
  Ahh yes, well it is a jolly little number that, but be aware not to discuss it with your colleagues until you are well out of department. We don't want it coming up in committee, now do we? You don't want it becoming a wash.