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Even if it wasn't given up, what would the lawsuit complain be, and what would one gain from it if it succeeds? Isn't Slack legally entitled to shut down any ac

Even if it wasn't given up, what would the lawsuit complain be, and what would one gain from it if it succeeds? Isn't Slack legally entitled to shut down any accounts at any time?

gaius 8y ago
GDPR holds that you own your data and are entitled to be provided a download of it. Not sure what the Canadian equivalent is, if any.
- saryant 8y ago
  Even if the GDPR applied in this situation, Slack is trying to obey US sanctions. I’d wager a guess GDPR can’t force a company to violate those laws.
  - taejo 8y ago
    GDPR has the force of law in its area of jurisdiction. If Slack can't comply with it, then they'd better not do business in that jurisdiction. That's how the law works; there isn't some hierarchy of one country's laws overriding others'.
    - hartator 8y ago
      /s Exactly. It’s why we never saw two countries going to war.
      - taejo 8y ago
        Are you suggesting the US go to war with the EU to force them to repeal the GDPR, so that Slack can do business in the EU? I know HN typically takes a pro-business angle politically, but that seems beyond even the most rabid line that I usually see here. If not, I am totally confused about how your response connects to what I wrote.
        794CD01 8y ago
        Other way around. The EU is the one who bears the burden of forcing American companies like slack to comply with their laws. Though jumping straight to a shooting war feels like an overreaction. Maybe start with a fine and ban the company if they don't pay.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    Do the US sanctions prevent them from giving the user a copy of their data?
- zmk_ 8y ago
  And it applies to people who are in the EU. So all these people have to do to get their data is to book a plane ticket into any EU country.
niea_11 8y ago
(Maybe this a stupid question) Why should they be entitled if you are a paying customer? Do they give you a backup of your activity on their platform before closing the account?
bgarbiak 8y ago
IANAL but cutting you off your everyday job and crucial documents (causing stress, money problems, hopefully not: unemployment) only because you happened to open an account in a random country seems like a reason good enough for a lawsuit. What to gain: compensation, and that damn' account.
- spacehome 8y ago
  You are not entitled to Slack's infrastructure, no matter how much you came to depend on it for your day-to-day life.
  - corebit 8y ago
    Well that's not strictly true. Presumably there is a contract of some sort, and Slack must abide by it, entitling users to Slack's infrastructure to some degree. It's not completely arbitrary. Plus there're notions of estoppel potentially at play.
    - paulcole 8y ago
      Pretty sure the contract is going to be in Slack’s favor. They had all the leverage when somebody agreed to it. https://slack.com/terms https://slack.com/terms
    - adventured 8y ago
      I'd pretty much guarantee their terms of service stipulate they can terminate an account at any time for any reason. It's how most Internet services operate. The only likely addition to that, is a monetary refund if warranted based on the account context.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
geofft 8y ago
One, no, you are not legally entitled to shut down accounts on the basis of race or national origin, if that's what they're doing. Two, they may have to at least return the data: if I let you use a desk at my place and you start doing business there, I am pretty sure I cannot legally refuse you entry and hold on to your papers. Three, even if they are, we're also legally entitled to call Slack incompetent losers, and to tell our employers that we should not switch to Slack if we wish to continue being co-workers with Iranians. I will be telling my employer that shortly. (One fascinating aide effect of using Slack is thst the entire company must conform to Slack's policies. You cannot hire someone whom Slack won't create an account for, nor someone who won't agree to Slack's ToS, because if they're not on Slack they can't get work done.)
- TomMarius 8y ago
  Digital data is not paper.
- dahart 8y ago
  > no, you are not legally entitled to shut down accounts on the basis of race or national origin, if that’s what they’re doing. That’s not what the parent comment said, you’re twisting it with an assumption. Slack is not legally obligated to provide Slack accounts to anyone, that was the point. > they may have to at least return the data: if I let you use a desk at my place and you start doing business there, I am pretty sure I cannot legally refuse you entry and hold on to your papers. Your analogy is rather confused. The data Slack has isn’t equivalent to your papers that you dropped on their desk. When you sign up for Slack, you enter into a contract outlined in their Terms of Service that detail explicitly what they agree to be responsible for. In particular, here’s the agreement relating to your data: “Following termination or expiration of a workspace’s subscriptions, we will have no obligation to maintain or provide any Customer Data and may thereafter, unless legally prohibited, delete all Customer Data in our systems or otherwise in our possession or under our control.” https://slack.com/terms-of-service https://slack.com/terms-of-service
  - lukeschlather 8y ago
    > Slack is not legally obligated to provide Slack accounts to anyone Slack is legally obligated to provide Slack accounts to people who pay, with 30 days notice for termination in most cases. There is this stipulation: > We may terminate the Contract immediately on notice to Customer if we reasonably believe that the Services are being used by Customer or its Authorized Users in violation of applicable law. However, if they are terminating accounts based on ethnicity that doesn't seem like a reasonable belief they can use to justify applying export controls.
gnulinux 8y ago
Honest question: if I go to McDonalds and pay for a burger can they refuse to serve me? I understand that they can refuse to serve me before paying, but after I pay their service and goods too?

Even if it wasn't given up, what would the lawsuit complain be, and what would one gain from it if it succeeds? Isn't Slack legally entitled to shut down any accounts at any time?

gaius 8y ago

GDPR holds that you own your data and are entitled to be provided a download of it. Not sure what the Canadian equivalent is, if any.

saryant 8y ago
Even if the GDPR applied in this situation, Slack is trying to obey US sanctions. I’d wager a guess GDPR can’t force a company to violate those laws.
- taejo 8y ago
  GDPR has the force of law in its area of jurisdiction. If Slack can't comply with it, then they'd better not do business in that jurisdiction. That's how the law works; there isn't some hierarchy of one country's laws overriding others'.
  - hartator 8y ago
    /s Exactly. It’s why we never saw two countries going to war.
    - taejo 8y ago
      Are you suggesting the US go to war with the EU to force them to repeal the GDPR, so that Slack can do business in the EU? I know HN typically takes a pro-business angle politically, but that seems beyond even the most rabid line that I usually see here. If not, I am totally confused about how your response connects to what I wrote.
      - 794CD01 8y ago
        Other way around. The EU is the one who bears the burden of forcing American companies like slack to comply with their laws. Though jumping straight to a shooting war feels like an overreaction. Maybe start with a fine and ban the company if they don't pay.
- icebraining 8y ago
  Do the US sanctions prevent them from giving the user a copy of their data?
zmk_ 8y ago
And it applies to people who are in the EU. So all these people have to do to get their data is to book a plane ticket into any EU country.

niea_11 8y ago

(Maybe this a stupid question) Why should they be entitled if you are a paying customer? Do they give you a backup of your activity on their platform before closing the account?

bgarbiak 8y ago

IANAL but cutting you off your everyday job and crucial documents (causing stress, money problems, hopefully not: unemployment) only because you happened to open an account in a random country seems like a reason good enough for a lawsuit. What to gain: compensation, and that damn' account.

spacehome 8y ago
You are not entitled to Slack's infrastructure, no matter how much you came to depend on it for your day-to-day life.
- corebit 8y ago
  Well that's not strictly true. Presumably there is a contract of some sort, and Slack must abide by it, entitling users to Slack's infrastructure to some degree. It's not completely arbitrary. Plus there're notions of estoppel potentially at play.
  - paulcole 8y ago
    Pretty sure the contract is going to be in Slack’s favor. They had all the leverage when somebody agreed to it. https://slack.com/terms https://slack.com/terms
  - adventured 8y ago
    I'd pretty much guarantee their terms of service stipulate they can terminate an account at any time for any reason. It's how most Internet services operate. The only likely addition to that, is a monetary refund if warranted based on the account context.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

geofft 8y ago

One, no, you are not legally entitled to shut down accounts on the basis of race or national origin, if that's what they're doing. Two, they may have to at least return the data: if I let you use a desk at my place and you start doing business there, I am pretty sure I cannot legally refuse you entry and hold on to your papers. Three, even if they are, we're also legally entitled to call Slack incompetent losers, and to tell our employers that we should not switch to Slack if we wish to continue being co-workers with Iranians. I will be telling my employer that shortly. (One fascinating aide effect of using Slack is thst the entire company must conform to Slack's policies. You cannot hire someone whom Slack won't create an account for, nor someone who won't agree to Slack's ToS, because if they're not on Slack they can't get work done.)

TomMarius 8y ago
Digital data is not paper.
dahart 8y ago
> no, you are not legally entitled to shut down accounts on the basis of race or national origin, if that’s what they’re doing. That’s not what the parent comment said, you’re twisting it with an assumption. Slack is not legally obligated to provide Slack accounts to anyone, that was the point. > they may have to at least return the data: if I let you use a desk at my place and you start doing business there, I am pretty sure I cannot legally refuse you entry and hold on to your papers. Your analogy is rather confused. The data Slack has isn’t equivalent to your papers that you dropped on their desk. When you sign up for Slack, you enter into a contract outlined in their Terms of Service that detail explicitly what they agree to be responsible for. In particular, here’s the agreement relating to your data: “Following termination or expiration of a workspace’s subscriptions, we will have no obligation to maintain or provide any Customer Data and may thereafter, unless legally prohibited, delete all Customer Data in our systems or otherwise in our possession or under our control.” https://slack.com/terms-of-service https://slack.com/terms-of-service
- lukeschlather 8y ago
  > Slack is not legally obligated to provide Slack accounts to anyone Slack is legally obligated to provide Slack accounts to people who pay, with 30 days notice for termination in most cases. There is this stipulation: > We may terminate the Contract immediately on notice to Customer if we reasonably believe that the Services are being used by Customer or its Authorized Users in violation of applicable law. However, if they are terminating accounts based on ethnicity that doesn't seem like a reasonable belief they can use to justify applying export controls.

gnulinux 8y ago

Honest question: if I go to McDonalds and pay for a burger can they refuse to serve me? I understand that they can refuse to serve me before paying, but after I pay their service and goods too?