6 ms·

What is "Firmware as a Service" ? In my mind, firmware is the low-level software that's embedded in a device, and is both hard to change and unlikely to need t

What is "Firmware as a Service" ? In my mind, firmware is the low-level software that's embedded in a device, and is both hard to change and unlikely to need to change, because it provides utility foundational to using your hardware. How do you turn that into a service? Edit: apparently I can't read because it was right in there: "Firmware as a Service optimizes UEFI and other system firmware for timely quality patches that keep firmware up to date and enables efficient development of post-launch features." So basically, take the limitations I mentioned and get rid of them.

ChuckMcM 8y ago
And at the same time creating a side channel that can be interposed on so that malware can be loaded right into the flash on the mother board :-) Seriously though, being "hard to change" on some parts of the system can be a feature.
- phkahler 8y ago
  Correct. If they push a little more it will just become part of the OS. Firmware should consist of minimal hardware init and a boot loader and nothing more.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  BIOS firmware has been flashable from the OS since, what, the Windows 98 days? I'm sure I remember updating the BIOS on an old Pentium III ThinkPad in this manner.
  - vthriller 8y ago
    Not to mention BIOS-destroying viruses from that era: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIH_(computer_virus) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIH_(computer_virus)
  - kortilla 8y ago
    I remember when it used to require a jumper change so it couldn’t be triggered by malware. How I miss those days
geofft 8y ago
"As a service" in this context means the mental model / delivery pipeline is more like subscribing to a service than purchasing individual software. I'm sure this makes more sense to Microsoft folks; open-source folks are more likely to call it "continuous deployment" or "living at HEAD" or something. They compare it to Windows-as-a-service, the idea that you run the current version of Windows, not the version you paid for and future updates involve change control and procurement and other bureaucracy. Firmware does change and often has security vulnerabilities, so you do need to be keeping it up to date the way you keep your OS up to date. Among other things, it includes processor microcode / errata fixes like some of the Spectre, Meltdown, etc. mitigations. It would be nice if we lived in a world where this doesn't need to change, but it does, and thankfully it is firmware and not hardware.
- ddispaltro 8y ago
  I hate to admit that I just realized the hard -> firm -> soft ware analogy.
  - snek 8y ago
    holy shit my life is a lie
  - charlietango92 8y ago
    better late than never. Cheers :)
  - eckza 8y ago
    Oh my god so did I
  - NikolaNovak 8y ago
    wow... I... I've been in IT for 25 years, a computer geek for 35, and... never even questioned it :O
  - shafyy 8y ago
    OMG me too. Always thought it's because of "firm" as in a "company". Like, the software the company puts on the device and a user can't change. Haha.
viraptor 8y ago
> In my mind, firmware is the low-level software that's embedded in a device, and is both hard to change and unlikely to need to change That may be a model suitable for a single machine. Once you get to hundreds, you get intimately familiar with how to update everything and how common firmware bugs are.
bno1 8y ago
>"Firmware as a Service optimizes UEFI and other system firmware for timely quality patches that keep firmware up to date and enables efficient development of post-launch features." sounds like an excuse to deliver unfinished software. remember that Microsoft got rid of its Windows testers and moved the burden of testing on the users.
mtgx 8y ago
This sounds like a good thing overall, considering most OEMs can't even be bothered to update devices for Spectre that are older than 2 years. However, I can't help but think that this is yet another thing on NSA/FBI's wishlist to Microsoft, just as most of the tracking stuff in Windows 10 seems to be. Say hello to "targeted malicious updates" by the U.S. government. Yes, I know this was probably possible with the Windows updates already, but I imagine the malicious firmware will be much less likely to detect = the agencies can use this against many more people.

ChuckMcM 8y ago

And at the same time creating a side channel that can be interposed on so that malware can be loaded right into the flash on the mother board :-) Seriously though, being "hard to change" on some parts of the system can be a feature.

phkahler 8y ago
Correct. If they push a little more it will just become part of the OS. Firmware should consist of minimal hardware init and a boot loader and nothing more.
SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
BIOS firmware has been flashable from the OS since, what, the Windows 98 days? I'm sure I remember updating the BIOS on an old Pentium III ThinkPad in this manner.
- vthriller 8y ago
  Not to mention BIOS-destroying viruses from that era: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIH_(computer_virus) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIH_(computer_virus)
- kortilla 8y ago
  I remember when it used to require a jumper change so it couldn’t be triggered by malware. How I miss those days

geofft 8y ago

"As a service" in this context means the mental model / delivery pipeline is more like subscribing to a service than purchasing individual software. I'm sure this makes more sense to Microsoft folks; open-source folks are more likely to call it "continuous deployment" or "living at HEAD" or something. They compare it to Windows-as-a-service, the idea that you run the current version of Windows, not the version you paid for and future updates involve change control and procurement and other bureaucracy. Firmware does change and often has security vulnerabilities, so you do need to be keeping it up to date the way you keep your OS up to date. Among other things, it includes processor microcode / errata fixes like some of the Spectre, Meltdown, etc. mitigations. It would be nice if we lived in a world where this doesn't need to change, but it does, and thankfully it is firmware and not hardware.

ddispaltro 8y ago
I hate to admit that I just realized the hard -> firm -> soft ware analogy.
- snek 8y ago
  holy shit my life is a lie
- charlietango92 8y ago
  better late than never. Cheers :)
- eckza 8y ago
  Oh my god so did I
- NikolaNovak 8y ago
  wow... I... I've been in IT for 25 years, a computer geek for 35, and... never even questioned it :O
- shafyy 8y ago
  OMG me too. Always thought it's because of "firm" as in a "company". Like, the software the company puts on the device and a user can't change. Haha.

viraptor 8y ago

> In my mind, firmware is the low-level software that's embedded in a device, and is both hard to change and unlikely to need to change That may be a model suitable for a single machine. Once you get to hundreds, you get intimately familiar with how to update everything and how common firmware bugs are.

bno1 8y ago

>"Firmware as a Service optimizes UEFI and other system firmware for timely quality patches that keep firmware up to date and enables efficient development of post-launch features." sounds like an excuse to deliver unfinished software. remember that Microsoft got rid of its Windows testers and moved the burden of testing on the users.

mtgx 8y ago

This sounds like a good thing overall, considering most OEMs can't even be bothered to update devices for Spectre that are older than 2 years. However, I can't help but think that this is yet another thing on NSA/FBI's wishlist to Microsoft, just as most of the tracking stuff in Windows 10 seems to be. Say hello to "targeted malicious updates" by the U.S. government. Yes, I know this was probably possible with the Windows updates already, but I imagine the malicious firmware will be much less likely to detect = the agencies can use this against many more people.