9 ms·

The problem with Customs and Border Protection is the attitude. They do have a challenging job. 99%+ of travelers are legit and doing nothing nefarious. They ha

by bruceb 8y ago

The problem with Customs and Border Protection is the attitude. They do have a challenging job. 99%+ of travelers are legit and doing nothing nefarious. They have to pick out the ones who are not legit/up to no good. I have no problem with them asking questions of myself or other travelers, even a lot of questions. The problem is the attitude and abusive nature of their conduct. I have had this experience a couple times and one time with my mother and I am a citizen. Plenty of other countries have customs/border agents that quiz you without attacking or belittling you.

gnicholas 8y ago
I think your last sentence should say “without”, not “with”.
- bruceb 8y ago
  yes, edited, thanks.
bpchaps 8y ago
Anecdote: About a year ago, I went through TSA and asked to opt out of the body scans in place of a pat down. Another agent on the side watched the whole thing and made kissing faces my way the whole time while making gay jokes. It was extremely belittling. Fuck TSA.
- ardy42 8y ago
  > Another agent on the side watched the whole thing and made kissing faces my way the whole time while making gay jokes. They need badge numbers and names prominently displayed on their uniforms, written in inch-high characters.
- dijit 8y ago
  Are you me? Had a really similar experience until I said that “this is the cheapest rub job I’ve ever gotten” and winked at him. He didn’t appreciate that. Tbh I seem to be making it my life’s work to be a little shit at airport security. I will _never_ use the millimetre scanner which seems to be a huge point of contentenion. And, while not TSA, the Gatwick airport security were trying very hard to convince me that I didn’t have a solid reason not to use this thing. Almost calling me silly or implying I’m stupid. On the same trip I tried flying with half a tub of hair créme (layrite) and, while I managed to fly in from Copenhagen with the tub, apparently Gatwick has different rules, so if the container has the potential of fitting more than 100ml it’s disallowed. Empty bottles are fine, but even a single drop of water makes it forbidden. It’s. Ludicrous.
  - philpem 8y ago
    Wow. I thought the experience I had with Gatwick was a one-off... :( These days I aim for London City or Leeds-Bradford if I can, Heathrow is my second choice, and I'll actively avoid Gatwick and Manchester unless there's no other alternative. I keep meaning to try Glasgow or Edinburgh for departures... I've flown into Edinburgh due to a KLM screw-up but never departed from there.
    - dijit 8y ago
      Oh, interesting! Would you be willing to share your gatwick story? I had no idea it was usually like this.
      - philpem 8y ago
        I posted it elsethread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18714315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18714315 Basically, constantly rushed by the security staff, and another passenger tried to make off with my phone (the guy next to me stopped him by asking "Hey, are you with this guy (me)? I think that's his...").
    - smcl 8y ago
      From my experience, flying out of Edinburgh the staff have all been pleasant enough, but depending on your luck the queues at the security bit can be a bit annoying.
    - Macha 8y ago
      Manchester is the one airport that I will flat out avoid. It's up their with some of the worst US airports, and unlike those airports, has alternatives in reasonable distances. You can even see by the passive aggressive (and consistent device) signs in security "All electronic devices must be taken out. Small electronic devices are excluded. Failure may result in delays of up to 2 hours" that it's an institutional problem. iirc they had some distinction where being battery powered meant it was a small electronic device, unless it was an iPad. Add to that usual airport inconsistencies like "do I need to remove an 8inch tablet?" from my bag. A 10 inch tablet is pretty universally required to be removed, but I've been instructed both to return my 8 inch tablet to my bag or to remove it from my bag and sneered at for getting it wrong, sometimes at the same airport. Or let's talk shoes + TSA in the US: Some airports require them through the scanner, others will look at you like your crazy. This will often not be reflected in local signage. But then threatening a 2 hour delay for not reading their mind is just dumb. In my final visit to Manchester airport, apparently an 8inch tablet does count as a small electronic device but a PS4 controller does not. Therefore I was supposed to conclude from the passive aggressive sign that the tablet must be in my bag and the PS4 controller must not be in my bag.
- LeftTurnSignal 8y ago
  I rejected the body scan and so they did a pat down. I definitely felt my nuts gettin touched a bit. So I ripped ass as loudly as I could once his head was around my waist. The search went from touching every point for "weapons" to immediately letting me through. Didn't even finish the pat down. So if you want to get through quicker, eat some taco bell I guess. Maybe they thought I shit myself, but whatever, some of those bastards are scum. Not all, but enough of them are.
baybal2 8y ago
My "best" experience was getting called for a questioning, having to wait 1 hour while missing my flight, while guys that were supposed to interrogate were having a "coffee" break in a booth few metres away. When the guy turned up (R. Torres on the badge) he was visibly drunk.
zachberger 8y ago
I agree. I went through the TSA checkpoint at the United Premier Access this last Tuesday. They have the new automated bin return system. Some of the people who travel less frequently were leaving the bins behind instead of putting them in the machine to be returned to the front. The TSA agent shouted at them repeatedly, "do any of you read English? Can't you read the damn sign?" While he pointed at the instructions. He did this for the entire time I was near the checkpoint. This is belittling. Not everyone flys frequently and knows this process. How about respecting them and teaching them the new way? I wanted to say something to one of the other agents, but why risk ending up on a list especially when it's this hard to get through now.
- dawnerd 8y ago
  I travel frequently and those machines at lax always throw me off. And they expect you to stand right up next to someone else while you empty your pockets. Literally feels like I’m cattle.
  - Cthulhu_ 8y ago
    > Literally feels like I’m cattle. That might actually be the intent - make people feel uncomfortable so they get more uncomfortable if they're up to no good.
    - pmiller2 8y ago
      I think you overestimate the competence of TSA. Last I had read, TSA had never prevented a terrorist attack, and has an abysmal record in tests where people try to get things like guns and knives past them.
      - jjeaff 8y ago
        TSA is security theater. Nothing more.
        dragonwriter 8y ago
bonestamp2 8y ago
> Plenty of other countries have customs/border agents that quiz you without attacking or belittling you. I agree. I am Canadian, but I went to school in the US. After school I returned to Canada. A couple years later I had a US work visa to train Americans on a particular technology that my company specialized in, and I was maybe the foremost expert in (outside of the manufacturer). I wasn't taking anyone's job, I was literally helping Americans keep their jobs instead of being replaced by me or someone like me. Anyway, on one particular trip I was called to secondary inspection and the CBP officer who received me there went on a long tirade about how I should work in my own country for a change. I mean, I did work in my country most of the time (I was still well within the 183 day/year tax treaty limit). He got so mad he actually walked away before he even asked me any questions. I was just standing there, confused, embarrassed and left feeling guilty even though I had done nothing illegal or immoral. But, there are good people in the CBP too... one saw what happened and came over and profusely apologized. He asked a few questions, apologized again, and sent me on my way. On the flip side, I've had my computers and phones searched by Canadian Customs and they've done so with tact and compassion, which seems to be much more effective -- it's amazing how much more cooperative people are when you treat them with compassion. But that's not just CBP, that's true for every industry that I've worked in... there are a few assholes everywhere and everyone else who is cool is a lot more effective because they approach people like they're working together rather than against each other.
- dawnerd 8y ago
  I’ve been to Canada numerous times and the agents on your side are so nice. Also never really had a problem with us agents other than they all seem over worked and under paid. At least that’s what their attitude comes off like to me. I do remember one case where a Canadian agent asked what my profession was and at the time I said “web developer” but they heard weapon developer. Pretty funny and awkward. And Gesh, I know of some people that cross the border a lot but don’t have nexus or global entry... it’s so worth getting.
  - bonestamp2 8y ago
    > it’s so worth getting Agreed, I can't imagine not having it these days.
CobrastanJorji 8y ago
The TSA's mission is to "protect the nation's transportation systems to ensure freedom of movement for people and commerce." Preventing someone's freedom of movement because they weren't permitted to browse his phone is entirely contrary to their stated mission.
- URSpider94 8y ago
  This isn’t TSA, it’s Customs and Border Patrol. Whole different can of worms.
ElCapitanMarkla 8y ago
I couldn't agree more. Just recently we visited Hawaii with our 6-month-old daughter. We were going through security and got pulled aside because one of the baby glass bottles was filled with water. About 20 mins of bomb testing and pat downs later and making us and our daughter drink the explosive water... To be fair most of the people working that day were fine, it was just one complete moron calling the shots that made it 100 times more difficult than it needed to be.
- paxys 8y ago
  Wow that's terrible. Even if you suspect it isn't water, would you really make a baby drink it??
pedrocr 8y ago
> I have no problem with them asking questions of myself or other travelers, even a lot of questions. According to your own rules you only really have to demonstrate citizenship. Whereas in this case that was already established and the person was still being harassed. I'm not a US citizen but did study in the US for a while. I've decided against going back to the US for almost a decade now because of this. Your own officers don't follow your own rules about your own citizens. I'm not chancing it as a foreigner.
pasta 8y ago
To me this sounds like complete lack of training. At most airports when they ask questions they don't care about the answer because they are trained to observe you while you answer.
sneak 8y ago
These people are tasked with the impossible job of choosing who to harass or detain based not on real criminal activity, but on the basis of who they think might commit a crime at some point in the future. It is an insane task on its very face, and to top it off they are given wide discretion. It attracts a very special kind of cop. This shit is totally illegal inside of the country. Some legal and mental gymnastics allow them to throw due process out of the window at the border. It’s inhuman. CBP has sexually assaulted my travel companions simply for traveling with me; when I travel with people now we go through US customs separately to avoid any women in the party being finger-raped by America’s Finest. (I am singled out for harassment for consistently exercising my 5th amendment rights at all US border entries for 3-4 years in the early 2000s.) Land of the free.

by bruceb 8y ago

gnicholas 8y ago

I think your last sentence should say “without”, not “with”.

bruceb 8y ago
yes, edited, thanks.

bpchaps 8y ago

Anecdote: About a year ago, I went through TSA and asked to opt out of the body scans in place of a pat down. Another agent on the side watched the whole thing and made kissing faces my way the whole time while making gay jokes. It was extremely belittling. Fuck TSA.

ardy42 8y ago
> Another agent on the side watched the whole thing and made kissing faces my way the whole time while making gay jokes. They need badge numbers and names prominently displayed on their uniforms, written in inch-high characters.
dijit 8y ago
Are you me? Had a really similar experience until I said that “this is the cheapest rub job I’ve ever gotten” and winked at him. He didn’t appreciate that. Tbh I seem to be making it my life’s work to be a little shit at airport security. I will _never_ use the millimetre scanner which seems to be a huge point of contentenion. And, while not TSA, the Gatwick airport security were trying very hard to convince me that I didn’t have a solid reason not to use this thing. Almost calling me silly or implying I’m stupid. On the same trip I tried flying with half a tub of hair créme (layrite) and, while I managed to fly in from Copenhagen with the tub, apparently Gatwick has different rules, so if the container has the potential of fitting more than 100ml it’s disallowed. Empty bottles are fine, but even a single drop of water makes it forbidden. It’s. Ludicrous.
- philpem 8y ago
  Wow. I thought the experience I had with Gatwick was a one-off... :( These days I aim for London City or Leeds-Bradford if I can, Heathrow is my second choice, and I'll actively avoid Gatwick and Manchester unless there's no other alternative. I keep meaning to try Glasgow or Edinburgh for departures... I've flown into Edinburgh due to a KLM screw-up but never departed from there.
  - dijit 8y ago
    Oh, interesting! Would you be willing to share your gatwick story? I had no idea it was usually like this.
    - philpem 8y ago
      I posted it elsethread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18714315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18714315 Basically, constantly rushed by the security staff, and another passenger tried to make off with my phone (the guy next to me stopped him by asking "Hey, are you with this guy (me)? I think that's his...").
  - smcl 8y ago
    From my experience, flying out of Edinburgh the staff have all been pleasant enough, but depending on your luck the queues at the security bit can be a bit annoying.
  - Macha 8y ago
    Manchester is the one airport that I will flat out avoid. It's up their with some of the worst US airports, and unlike those airports, has alternatives in reasonable distances. You can even see by the passive aggressive (and consistent device) signs in security "All electronic devices must be taken out. Small electronic devices are excluded. Failure may result in delays of up to 2 hours" that it's an institutional problem. iirc they had some distinction where being battery powered meant it was a small electronic device, unless it was an iPad. Add to that usual airport inconsistencies like "do I need to remove an 8inch tablet?" from my bag. A 10 inch tablet is pretty universally required to be removed, but I've been instructed both to return my 8 inch tablet to my bag or to remove it from my bag and sneered at for getting it wrong, sometimes at the same airport. Or let's talk shoes + TSA in the US: Some airports require them through the scanner, others will look at you like your crazy. This will often not be reflected in local signage. But then threatening a 2 hour delay for not reading their mind is just dumb. In my final visit to Manchester airport, apparently an 8inch tablet does count as a small electronic device but a PS4 controller does not. Therefore I was supposed to conclude from the passive aggressive sign that the tablet must be in my bag and the PS4 controller must not be in my bag.
LeftTurnSignal 8y ago
I rejected the body scan and so they did a pat down. I definitely felt my nuts gettin touched a bit. So I ripped ass as loudly as I could once his head was around my waist. The search went from touching every point for "weapons" to immediately letting me through. Didn't even finish the pat down. So if you want to get through quicker, eat some taco bell I guess. Maybe they thought I shit myself, but whatever, some of those bastards are scum. Not all, but enough of them are.

baybal2 8y ago

My "best" experience was getting called for a questioning, having to wait 1 hour while missing my flight, while guys that were supposed to interrogate were having a "coffee" break in a booth few metres away. When the guy turned up (R. Torres on the badge) he was visibly drunk.

zachberger 8y ago

I agree. I went through the TSA checkpoint at the United Premier Access this last Tuesday. They have the new automated bin return system. Some of the people who travel less frequently were leaving the bins behind instead of putting them in the machine to be returned to the front. The TSA agent shouted at them repeatedly, "do any of you read English? Can't you read the damn sign?" While he pointed at the instructions. He did this for the entire time I was near the checkpoint. This is belittling. Not everyone flys frequently and knows this process. How about respecting them and teaching them the new way? I wanted to say something to one of the other agents, but why risk ending up on a list especially when it's this hard to get through now.

dawnerd 8y ago
I travel frequently and those machines at lax always throw me off. And they expect you to stand right up next to someone else while you empty your pockets. Literally feels like I’m cattle.
- Cthulhu_ 8y ago
  > Literally feels like I’m cattle. That might actually be the intent - make people feel uncomfortable so they get more uncomfortable if they're up to no good.
  - pmiller2 8y ago
    I think you overestimate the competence of TSA. Last I had read, TSA had never prevented a terrorist attack, and has an abysmal record in tests where people try to get things like guns and knives past them.
    - jjeaff 8y ago
      TSA is security theater. Nothing more.
      - dragonwriter 8y ago

bonestamp2 8y ago

> Plenty of other countries have customs/border agents that quiz you without attacking or belittling you. I agree. I am Canadian, but I went to school in the US. After school I returned to Canada. A couple years later I had a US work visa to train Americans on a particular technology that my company specialized in, and I was maybe the foremost expert in (outside of the manufacturer). I wasn't taking anyone's job, I was literally helping Americans keep their jobs instead of being replaced by me or someone like me. Anyway, on one particular trip I was called to secondary inspection and the CBP officer who received me there went on a long tirade about how I should work in my own country for a change. I mean, I did work in my country most of the time (I was still well within the 183 day/year tax treaty limit). He got so mad he actually walked away before he even asked me any questions. I was just standing there, confused, embarrassed and left feeling guilty even though I had done nothing illegal or immoral. But, there are good people in the CBP too... one saw what happened and came over and profusely apologized. He asked a few questions, apologized again, and sent me on my way. On the flip side, I've had my computers and phones searched by Canadian Customs and they've done so with tact and compassion, which seems to be much more effective -- it's amazing how much more cooperative people are when you treat them with compassion. But that's not just CBP, that's true for every industry that I've worked in... there are a few assholes everywhere and everyone else who is cool is a lot more effective because they approach people like they're working together rather than against each other.

dawnerd 8y ago
I’ve been to Canada numerous times and the agents on your side are so nice. Also never really had a problem with us agents other than they all seem over worked and under paid. At least that’s what their attitude comes off like to me. I do remember one case where a Canadian agent asked what my profession was and at the time I said “web developer” but they heard weapon developer. Pretty funny and awkward. And Gesh, I know of some people that cross the border a lot but don’t have nexus or global entry... it’s so worth getting.
- bonestamp2 8y ago
  > it’s so worth getting Agreed, I can't imagine not having it these days.

CobrastanJorji 8y ago

The TSA's mission is to "protect the nation's transportation systems to ensure freedom of movement for people and commerce." Preventing someone's freedom of movement because they weren't permitted to browse his phone is entirely contrary to their stated mission.

URSpider94 8y ago
This isn’t TSA, it’s Customs and Border Patrol. Whole different can of worms.

ElCapitanMarkla 8y ago

I couldn't agree more. Just recently we visited Hawaii with our 6-month-old daughter. We were going through security and got pulled aside because one of the baby glass bottles was filled with water. About 20 mins of bomb testing and pat downs later and making us and our daughter drink the explosive water... To be fair most of the people working that day were fine, it was just one complete moron calling the shots that made it 100 times more difficult than it needed to be.

paxys 8y ago
Wow that's terrible. Even if you suspect it isn't water, would you really make a baby drink it??

pedrocr 8y ago

> I have no problem with them asking questions of myself or other travelers, even a lot of questions. According to your own rules you only really have to demonstrate citizenship. Whereas in this case that was already established and the person was still being harassed. I'm not a US citizen but did study in the US for a while. I've decided against going back to the US for almost a decade now because of this. Your own officers don't follow your own rules about your own citizens. I'm not chancing it as a foreigner.

pasta 8y ago

To me this sounds like complete lack of training. At most airports when they ask questions they don't care about the answer because they are trained to observe you while you answer.

sneak 8y ago

These people are tasked with the impossible job of choosing who to harass or detain based not on real criminal activity, but on the basis of who they think might commit a crime at some point in the future. It is an insane task on its very face, and to top it off they are given wide discretion. It attracts a very special kind of cop. This shit is totally illegal inside of the country. Some legal and mental gymnastics allow them to throw due process out of the window at the border. It’s inhuman. CBP has sexually assaulted my travel companions simply for traveling with me; when I travel with people now we go through US customs separately to avoid any women in the party being finger-raped by America’s Finest. (I am singled out for harassment for consistently exercising my 5th amendment rights at all US border entries for 3-4 years in the early 2000s.) Land of the free.