7 ms·

I would get a CCW if you don't already have one.

by agensaequivocum 8y ago

yardie 8y ago
Except he’d be dead and the perp would have 2 guns. Why is the solution to more gun violence more guns?
- TallGuyShort 8y ago
  What's your solution? More bans that aren't enforced effectively?
  - Sabinus 8y ago
    Every other country seems to manage it.
    - TallGuyShort 8y ago
      Yeah I grew up in a country where it backfired royally, and now I concealed carry and stopped a murder-in-progress with it when the cops were still 10 minutes away, so y'all can fuck off with your statist ideas and cherry-picked examples for things that have no global correlation.
      - Aeolun 8y ago
        You realize your own example is cherry picked right? I’ll be the first to admit that the stats for gun bans seem shaky, but that doesn’t make your own anecdote valid as a counterargument.
      - eljimmy 8y ago
        I'm curious, where are you from? I live in Canada and no one carries around a gun except criminals. We have a fair number of stabbings since anyone buy and carry a knife (with exceptions) but shootings are pretty damn rare. I think almost every shooting in my city (a total of 74 in a city of 1.25 million) last year was criminal-on-criminal.
        vsl 8y ago
        Not the parent, but: I’m Czech, conceal carry for self-defense is legal here (with competence tests and no criminal history requirement) and some 300k people (out of 10M population) have the permit. Shootings are pretty damn rare here. Compared to e.g. UK, which all but banned any weapons imaginable, mugging, stabbing and other violent crimes are very rare as well.
      - King-Aaron 8y ago
        Sounds like you thrive on anecdotes. You should move to Australia, not many people have guns, so we just man up and kill each other with a single punch.
- agensaequivocum 8y ago
  Not necessarily, there are instances where both perpetrator and victim are armed and the perpetrator walks away because of it.
  - nicoburns 8y ago
    Really? Because pretty much the only situation in which I'd be tempted to shoot another person is if they also had a gun (otherwise they're pretty likely to shoot me). If I'm unarmed, then I'm likely to be safe, even if I do get robbed.
    - prepend 8y ago
      If two people are running from a bear, you don’t need to outrun the bear. Armed victim is more trouble for perpetrator so they will find easier prey. Most crimes aren’t specific but are opportunistic. If you’re a crackhead with a gun or whatnot do you stick up the crazy with a gun on their belt? Or wait 5 minutes for an unarmed victim? This seems like such simple logic that it surprises me that I frequently hear arguments like yours. I think that a ccw will not help against a hitman. But it sure helps against crackheads.
      - DCoder 8y ago
        If you can plainly see the gun on their belt, is it really concealed carry?
      - flukus 8y ago
        > If you’re a crackhead with a gun or whatnot do you stick up the crazy with a gun on their belt? Or wait 5 minutes for an unarmed victim? Since I'm not a rational long term thinker, I shoot my victim and take the wallet from the body, why give them a chance to shoot back?. This is the end result of the arms race you advocate for.
        kortilla 8y ago
        We’re talking concealed though. So if everyone used your simple thought process, the rational move would be to shoot everyone since you don’t know who has a gun.
- kortilla 8y ago
  Getting a CCW involves training to use the gun properly to shoot assailants. People with CCWs are more likely to win a standoff than random criminals with stolen guns and no training. If the assailant also had a CCW, he would know how stupid it is to approach someone else with a gun.
  - JshWright 8y ago
    Only in the most restrictive states is training required, and even then it's generally just a class about the laws and regulations. That's not going to help you in a "standoff".
    - agensaequivocum 8y ago
      I admit I don't have stats for this, but it seems that most people who get CCWs do practice regularly or at least have extensive experience with firearms.
      - bradknowles 8y ago
        I don’t have the stats handy at the moment, but ISTR that the number one way that police officers get shot/killed is by having their own gun taken away from them by criminals and then used against them. Now, granted, many police officers don’t have anywhere near as much gun training than your average NRA member, but I submit they still have way more training with guns than the average person on the street. Given that, I can’t see how the solution to the gun problem is by having more guns.
        kortilla 8y ago
        The people that attack police have little overlap with those who attack regular people. Also, keep in mind police have their guns visible where they can be easily grabbed. You’re confusing open carry with concealed carry.
        tripzilch 8y ago
- ghufran_syed 8y ago
  Quick existence proof that sometimes it seems to be beneficial (for the non-criminal) https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen/ https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen/
- StanislavPetrov 8y ago
  Because in a society populated with a lot of violent people its important to have the ability to defend yourself. Pretending you live in a fantasy world where you can pass laws to protect people from violent individuals is delusional.
  - adrianN 8y ago
    It works reasonably well for the majority of the developed world. What's different about the US?
    - kortilla 8y ago
      Does it? “The majority of the developed world” has about as much violent crime or more depending on which country you examine. The only difference is that of course there is a lot less involving guns.
      - tripzilch 8y ago
        Yes it does, and no they do not.

I would get a CCW if you don't already have one.

yardie 8y ago

Except he’d be dead and the perp would have 2 guns. Why is the solution to more gun violence more guns?

TallGuyShort 8y ago
What's your solution? More bans that aren't enforced effectively?
- Sabinus 8y ago
  Every other country seems to manage it.
  - TallGuyShort 8y ago
    Yeah I grew up in a country where it backfired royally, and now I concealed carry and stopped a murder-in-progress with it when the cops were still 10 minutes away, so y'all can fuck off with your statist ideas and cherry-picked examples for things that have no global correlation.
    - Aeolun 8y ago
      You realize your own example is cherry picked right? I’ll be the first to admit that the stats for gun bans seem shaky, but that doesn’t make your own anecdote valid as a counterargument.
    - eljimmy 8y ago
      I'm curious, where are you from? I live in Canada and no one carries around a gun except criminals. We have a fair number of stabbings since anyone buy and carry a knife (with exceptions) but shootings are pretty damn rare. I think almost every shooting in my city (a total of 74 in a city of 1.25 million) last year was criminal-on-criminal.
      - vsl 8y ago
        Not the parent, but: I’m Czech, conceal carry for self-defense is legal here (with competence tests and no criminal history requirement) and some 300k people (out of 10M population) have the permit. Shootings are pretty damn rare here. Compared to e.g. UK, which all but banned any weapons imaginable, mugging, stabbing and other violent crimes are very rare as well.
    - King-Aaron 8y ago
      Sounds like you thrive on anecdotes. You should move to Australia, not many people have guns, so we just man up and kill each other with a single punch.
agensaequivocum 8y ago
Not necessarily, there are instances where both perpetrator and victim are armed and the perpetrator walks away because of it.
- nicoburns 8y ago
  Really? Because pretty much the only situation in which I'd be tempted to shoot another person is if they also had a gun (otherwise they're pretty likely to shoot me). If I'm unarmed, then I'm likely to be safe, even if I do get robbed.
  - prepend 8y ago
    If two people are running from a bear, you don’t need to outrun the bear. Armed victim is more trouble for perpetrator so they will find easier prey. Most crimes aren’t specific but are opportunistic. If you’re a crackhead with a gun or whatnot do you stick up the crazy with a gun on their belt? Or wait 5 minutes for an unarmed victim? This seems like such simple logic that it surprises me that I frequently hear arguments like yours. I think that a ccw will not help against a hitman. But it sure helps against crackheads.
    - DCoder 8y ago
      If you can plainly see the gun on their belt, is it really concealed carry?
    - flukus 8y ago
      > If you’re a crackhead with a gun or whatnot do you stick up the crazy with a gun on their belt? Or wait 5 minutes for an unarmed victim? Since I'm not a rational long term thinker, I shoot my victim and take the wallet from the body, why give them a chance to shoot back?. This is the end result of the arms race you advocate for.
      - kortilla 8y ago
        We’re talking concealed though. So if everyone used your simple thought process, the rational move would be to shoot everyone since you don’t know who has a gun.
kortilla 8y ago
Getting a CCW involves training to use the gun properly to shoot assailants. People with CCWs are more likely to win a standoff than random criminals with stolen guns and no training. If the assailant also had a CCW, he would know how stupid it is to approach someone else with a gun.
- JshWright 8y ago
  Only in the most restrictive states is training required, and even then it's generally just a class about the laws and regulations. That's not going to help you in a "standoff".
  - agensaequivocum 8y ago
    I admit I don't have stats for this, but it seems that most people who get CCWs do practice regularly or at least have extensive experience with firearms.
    - bradknowles 8y ago
      I don’t have the stats handy at the moment, but ISTR that the number one way that police officers get shot/killed is by having their own gun taken away from them by criminals and then used against them. Now, granted, many police officers don’t have anywhere near as much gun training than your average NRA member, but I submit they still have way more training with guns than the average person on the street. Given that, I can’t see how the solution to the gun problem is by having more guns.
      - kortilla 8y ago
        The people that attack police have little overlap with those who attack regular people. Also, keep in mind police have their guns visible where they can be easily grabbed. You’re confusing open carry with concealed carry.
        tripzilch 8y ago
ghufran_syed 8y ago
Quick existence proof that sometimes it seems to be beneficial (for the non-criminal) https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen/ https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen/
StanislavPetrov 8y ago
Because in a society populated with a lot of violent people its important to have the ability to defend yourself. Pretending you live in a fantasy world where you can pass laws to protect people from violent individuals is delusional.
- adrianN 8y ago
  It works reasonably well for the majority of the developed world. What's different about the US?
  - kortilla 8y ago
    Does it? “The majority of the developed world” has about as much violent crime or more depending on which country you examine. The only difference is that of course there is a lot less involving guns.
    - tripzilch 8y ago
      Yes it does, and no they do not.