6 ms·

People who think Musk is eccentric/unhinged/unstable/etc should consider a much simpler possibility: He's just a regular guy, and simply does not filter himself

People who think Musk is eccentric/unhinged/unstable/etc should consider a much simpler possibility: He's just a regular guy, and simply does not filter himself like his peers do. Other people in his position adopt the public/private persona and for the most part just plain shut up. They don't tweet anything than platitudes, they don't joke, they don't speak with random people on Twitter. They probably do this to minimize their downside exposure, but that might not be very effective. Bezos's bland Twitter feed hasn't stopped anyone from making into a villain. Musk OTOH, makes Monty Python references, fart jokes, strikes up random conversations, shittalks randos etc. Ie, things normal people do. So the downside is a deluge of tusktusktusking at his "unstable" behaviour, but the upside is that a lot of people like him because he comes across like a real person rather than a PR bot.

FartyMcFarter 8y ago
There's a limit to how much this can be accepted though - he has broken rules before and this has consequences not just for him but also other stakeholders.
emn13 8y ago
Underlying this perspective is an implicit assumption that conventional social filtering - a practice as old as we can remember - serves no social good; that it's all just smoke and mirrors. At the very least that's a remarkable assumption. We've been doing this for essentially ever, and it impacts all kinds of stuff. In some sense, musk is to CEO's what trump is to the presidency: all that diplomacy is just nonsense. And - perhaps there's a kernel of truth to that; after all, the way we communicate has changed more radically than I think we really like to admit. I don't just mean the technology and the means, nor the social fashions: just read (transcripts of) old communication: I think we really think differently now than a few generations back. So perhaps old norms no longer apply completely. But I'm not quite willing to assume that without at least some careful thought. I think it's at least as plausible that trump and musk (to be fair to musk: they differ in most ways, and trump is way more extreme) simply don't communicate very strategically at all. Despite all the hot air there's little upside; it's mostly mess. Sure, it's entertaining. And as entertainment, that's fine. But would you want to actually deal with people like that? And if the world has changed in many ways, what hasn't is that you're going pretty much nowhere alone. You need cooperation and help to amount to anything constructive. So: maybe there's a small chance this is the new norm and humanity has changed in pretty basic ways under the influence of todays pressures and technology. But there's also a considerable chance it hasn't.
- schiffern 8y ago
  >Underlying this perspective is an implicit assumption that conventional social filtering... serves no social good There's a middle you're excluding here: that some parts of conventional filtering serve a valid social good, and that some parts don't. Obviously this will vary on a case-by-case basis based on personal values. Which specific filters to accept/reject (and on what basis) make the difference between "abrasive CEO on twitter" and "guy throwing poop in Central Park."
  - cs02rm0 8y ago
    And sometimes it will be simultaneously good for some people and less good for others. His lack of filter is usually not great for him, for the rest of us I'm not sure it's so bad. We get more of an insight than we might otherwise.
    - wallace_f 8y ago
      >for the rest of us I'm not sure it's so bad. We get more of an insight than we might otherwise. Some benefits: Criticism (especially of authorities), skepticism, and tolerance of speech and ideas are actually foundations of the modern world, and were even necessary for the proliferation of science against established power structures and human/scoial biases against eccentric pursuits. I hope Musk continues to speak his mind.
      - fsloth 8y ago
        This. Free speech is so much more important than sticking to the politically correct mode of expression du jour. To rephraze: sometimes you should focus on diplomacy, but not all the time.
      - emn13 8y ago
        I don't think we're getting a good deal in terms of signal to noise here. If anything, the irrelevant chatter distracts from important messages; making it hard to tell fact from fiction. And that's not a coincidence: by doing so a person can retrospectively claim that whatever statement turns into a particularly hot potato wasn't to be taken seriously; or that they weren't being precise. This is definitely true for musk, and even more so for trump. They say all kinds of things in contexts where it really isn't reasonable for the reader to tell how serious they are, that then turn out to be pretty absurd, misleading, and/or self-serving. And those lies matter: e.g. when musk says something like "funding secured" - the only reason he gets away with lies like that with as few consequences as there were is because of all the only noise in his channel. So while it's amusing to see these know-it-alls spout nonsense about things they just don't know anything about (but might have honestly interesting takes on), it's harmful that that's mixed in with normal communication. I'm skeptical that beyond the entertainment factor it's actually all that helpful to hear all that rambling that may or may not be uninformed - who knows which mode they're in right now? Fine for Musk to speak his mind: but it should be clear when he's vaguely brainstorming, and when he's being precise - and vague rambling should not replace communication you can rely on. So I hope he's held to account for what he says, because noise is harmful, and that's not even accounting for deceptive comments, which he seems to make too (e.g. funding secured).
GuB-42 8y ago
I can't believe it. He clearly understands the value of PR. Take Tesla cars for instance, they are certainly good electric cars, but they are even better sold. It is a car you want even if you've never seen one. SpaceX launches are shows, they even managed to make failures look awesome. How a man that puts so much attention in his companies image can forget about his own. His unhinged nature is his public persona. In fact, the only time I think he messed up was with the "pedo" accusation. It is possible that the joint incident was planned: if you consider it carefully, he smoked where it is legal, just once, and then came out saying that he doesn't like the high. It totally matches the adventurous, laid back but clear minded image he wants to project. Jeff Bezos on the opposite doesn't really care about PR. His Twitter is generic, I'm not even sure if he actually reads it, let alone write it. For a company dealing directly with consumers, Amazon is rather low profile, they simply deliver, and make money. As for Blue Origin, they are quite secretive, completely unlike SpaceX. That's this lack of PR that made him a villain.
- icelancer 8y ago
  Populism is overtaking this country's feelings about society, government, and wealth. It doesn't matter what rich people do, it is inevitable they will all be made out to be villains who exploit human capital and do nothing good for us. Gates has avoided some of it but not all. Everyone remembers where he came from and never lets him forget it. There is no atoning for him. Larry Ellison on the other hand is just the devil incarnate and people treat him as such. At least he expends no energy pretending otherwise.
serf 8y ago
>He's just a regular guy being astronomically rich and being a regular guy are mutually exclusive. in fact, you listed the actions that he (and maybe his PR wrangler, much like George Carlin did during his career renewal) participates in in order to keep the 'regular guy' charade afloat. also 'shitttalks randos' isn't something to aspire to want to do, especially in your context where it's being listed as a tool used by Musk to get people to think he's a 'regular guy'. All that said : I like Musk, and I like his endeavors. What i'm against is painting a world-mover individual as 'another one of the guys'. He's not -- it's nothing but a PR move that capitalizes on his candor and perceived honest; two traits that many nerd/geek types have issues hiding in business context. It just happens to work for him and his wranglers.
- jpatokal 8y ago
  Yeah nah: Musk does so much off-the-wall shit that any putative PR wrangler would be having heart attacks on an hourly basis. Consider the whole Thai cave rescue/pedophile accusation saga -- do you really think this was a carefully orchestrated publicity stunt?
- icelancer 8y ago
  > also 'shitttalks randos' isn't something to aspire to want to do, especially in your context where it's being listed as a tool used by Musk to get people to think he's a 'regular guy'. Everyone does this. At family gatherings, the grocery store, etc. You all do it. I'm sure one or two people will chime in and say they've never badmouthed a random person at the post office who was taking too long, but everyone knows the truth.
  - oblio 8y ago
    I don't recall calling someone a pedophile in front of millions of people.
sp527 8y ago
This is a slightly misguided view given that Musk himself has on several occasions suggested that he might be suffering from a mood disorder. If that’s true, then there is a very clear psychiatric explanation for his behavior. Bipolar disorder may also account for some of what we perceive as “genius”. Kanye West is another excellent example of this. FWIW I’m not denying he’s a highly intelligent person. But that doesn’t exclude the possibility of bipolar.
pbreit 8y ago
Elon is not regular. He has a combination of intellect, confidence and persuasion that is possibly unparalleled.
majormajor 8y ago
"Class clown" is a type that goes back a long ways, online or offline, but the audience appeal of that type isn't "this is a real person," it's because they can often be entertaining. Where things get interesting is when someone continues to play that role even when in a position with more to lose. Gambling is fairly normal, but people might get worried about you if you're gambling with very high stakes.
tw04 8y ago
Right... and "others" do that because it turns out when you're the CEO of a PUBLICLY traded company, you are subject to being judged by the public. If he were only in charge of private companies, he'd essentially be free to say/act however he wants. The second you IPO and are CEO, you have muzzled yourself, or you should expect to face the wrath of your shareholders. Why would you expect people who have millions of dollars invested in your company to expect you to do anything OTHER than act like a professional? If my retirement is in your hands I expect you to act like an adult, not a 16-year-old bruh having a good time on twitter.
archon810 8y ago
Musk also replies to user comments all the time and turns their suggestions into reality. He participates in conversations and provides a ton of valuable info on Twitter. That makes him a hell of a lot more interesting than other CEOs.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
That's a fair comment, but it should be noted that with greater power comes greater responsibility. It's also possible that he's an attention seeker, that this is part of his schtick, and that he can't help himself. He's attacked the SEC publicly several times, very unprofessionally, if I were an investor I'd be pissed; it's one thing if he were to have data indicating he's being mistreated but mostly it's but Trumpish attacks on the SEC ... which could get him in serious trouble.

FartyMcFarter 8y ago

There's a limit to how much this can be accepted though - he has broken rules before and this has consequences not just for him but also other stakeholders.

emn13 8y ago

Underlying this perspective is an implicit assumption that conventional social filtering - a practice as old as we can remember - serves no social good; that it's all just smoke and mirrors. At the very least that's a remarkable assumption. We've been doing this for essentially ever, and it impacts all kinds of stuff. In some sense, musk is to CEO's what trump is to the presidency: all that diplomacy is just nonsense. And - perhaps there's a kernel of truth to that; after all, the way we communicate has changed more radically than I think we really like to admit. I don't just mean the technology and the means, nor the social fashions: just read (transcripts of) old communication: I think we really think differently now than a few generations back. So perhaps old norms no longer apply completely. But I'm not quite willing to assume that without at least some careful thought. I think it's at least as plausible that trump and musk (to be fair to musk: they differ in most ways, and trump is way more extreme) simply don't communicate very strategically at all. Despite all the hot air there's little upside; it's mostly mess. Sure, it's entertaining. And as entertainment, that's fine. But would you want to actually deal with people like that? And if the world has changed in many ways, what hasn't is that you're going pretty much nowhere alone. You need cooperation and help to amount to anything constructive. So: maybe there's a small chance this is the new norm and humanity has changed in pretty basic ways under the influence of todays pressures and technology. But there's also a considerable chance it hasn't.

schiffern 8y ago
>Underlying this perspective is an implicit assumption that conventional social filtering... serves no social good There's a middle you're excluding here: that some parts of conventional filtering serve a valid social good, and that some parts don't. Obviously this will vary on a case-by-case basis based on personal values. Which specific filters to accept/reject (and on what basis) make the difference between "abrasive CEO on twitter" and "guy throwing poop in Central Park."
- cs02rm0 8y ago
  And sometimes it will be simultaneously good for some people and less good for others. His lack of filter is usually not great for him, for the rest of us I'm not sure it's so bad. We get more of an insight than we might otherwise.
  - wallace_f 8y ago
    >for the rest of us I'm not sure it's so bad. We get more of an insight than we might otherwise. Some benefits: Criticism (especially of authorities), skepticism, and tolerance of speech and ideas are actually foundations of the modern world, and were even necessary for the proliferation of science against established power structures and human/scoial biases against eccentric pursuits. I hope Musk continues to speak his mind.
    - fsloth 8y ago
      This. Free speech is so much more important than sticking to the politically correct mode of expression du jour. To rephraze: sometimes you should focus on diplomacy, but not all the time.
    - emn13 8y ago
      I don't think we're getting a good deal in terms of signal to noise here. If anything, the irrelevant chatter distracts from important messages; making it hard to tell fact from fiction. And that's not a coincidence: by doing so a person can retrospectively claim that whatever statement turns into a particularly hot potato wasn't to be taken seriously; or that they weren't being precise. This is definitely true for musk, and even more so for trump. They say all kinds of things in contexts where it really isn't reasonable for the reader to tell how serious they are, that then turn out to be pretty absurd, misleading, and/or self-serving. And those lies matter: e.g. when musk says something like "funding secured" - the only reason he gets away with lies like that with as few consequences as there were is because of all the only noise in his channel. So while it's amusing to see these know-it-alls spout nonsense about things they just don't know anything about (but might have honestly interesting takes on), it's harmful that that's mixed in with normal communication. I'm skeptical that beyond the entertainment factor it's actually all that helpful to hear all that rambling that may or may not be uninformed - who knows which mode they're in right now? Fine for Musk to speak his mind: but it should be clear when he's vaguely brainstorming, and when he's being precise - and vague rambling should not replace communication you can rely on. So I hope he's held to account for what he says, because noise is harmful, and that's not even accounting for deceptive comments, which he seems to make too (e.g. funding secured).

GuB-42 8y ago

I can't believe it. He clearly understands the value of PR. Take Tesla cars for instance, they are certainly good electric cars, but they are even better sold. It is a car you want even if you've never seen one. SpaceX launches are shows, they even managed to make failures look awesome. How a man that puts so much attention in his companies image can forget about his own. His unhinged nature is his public persona. In fact, the only time I think he messed up was with the "pedo" accusation. It is possible that the joint incident was planned: if you consider it carefully, he smoked where it is legal, just once, and then came out saying that he doesn't like the high. It totally matches the adventurous, laid back but clear minded image he wants to project. Jeff Bezos on the opposite doesn't really care about PR. His Twitter is generic, I'm not even sure if he actually reads it, let alone write it. For a company dealing directly with consumers, Amazon is rather low profile, they simply deliver, and make money. As for Blue Origin, they are quite secretive, completely unlike SpaceX. That's this lack of PR that made him a villain.

icelancer 8y ago
Populism is overtaking this country's feelings about society, government, and wealth. It doesn't matter what rich people do, it is inevitable they will all be made out to be villains who exploit human capital and do nothing good for us. Gates has avoided some of it but not all. Everyone remembers where he came from and never lets him forget it. There is no atoning for him. Larry Ellison on the other hand is just the devil incarnate and people treat him as such. At least he expends no energy pretending otherwise.

serf 8y ago

>He's just a regular guy being astronomically rich and being a regular guy are mutually exclusive. in fact, you listed the actions that he (and maybe his PR wrangler, much like George Carlin did during his career renewal) participates in in order to keep the 'regular guy' charade afloat. also 'shitttalks randos' isn't something to aspire to want to do, especially in your context where it's being listed as a tool used by Musk to get people to think he's a 'regular guy'. All that said : I like Musk, and I like his endeavors. What i'm against is painting a world-mover individual as 'another one of the guys'. He's not -- it's nothing but a PR move that capitalizes on his candor and perceived honest; two traits that many nerd/geek types have issues hiding in business context. It just happens to work for him and his wranglers.

jpatokal 8y ago
Yeah nah: Musk does so much off-the-wall shit that any putative PR wrangler would be having heart attacks on an hourly basis. Consider the whole Thai cave rescue/pedophile accusation saga -- do you really think this was a carefully orchestrated publicity stunt?
icelancer 8y ago
> also 'shitttalks randos' isn't something to aspire to want to do, especially in your context where it's being listed as a tool used by Musk to get people to think he's a 'regular guy'. Everyone does this. At family gatherings, the grocery store, etc. You all do it. I'm sure one or two people will chime in and say they've never badmouthed a random person at the post office who was taking too long, but everyone knows the truth.
- oblio 8y ago
  I don't recall calling someone a pedophile in front of millions of people.

sp527 8y ago

This is a slightly misguided view given that Musk himself has on several occasions suggested that he might be suffering from a mood disorder. If that’s true, then there is a very clear psychiatric explanation for his behavior. Bipolar disorder may also account for some of what we perceive as “genius”. Kanye West is another excellent example of this. FWIW I’m not denying he’s a highly intelligent person. But that doesn’t exclude the possibility of bipolar.

pbreit 8y ago

Elon is not regular. He has a combination of intellect, confidence and persuasion that is possibly unparalleled.

majormajor 8y ago

"Class clown" is a type that goes back a long ways, online or offline, but the audience appeal of that type isn't "this is a real person," it's because they can often be entertaining. Where things get interesting is when someone continues to play that role even when in a position with more to lose. Gambling is fairly normal, but people might get worried about you if you're gambling with very high stakes.

tw04 8y ago

Right... and "others" do that because it turns out when you're the CEO of a PUBLICLY traded company, you are subject to being judged by the public. If he were only in charge of private companies, he'd essentially be free to say/act however he wants. The second you IPO and are CEO, you have muzzled yourself, or you should expect to face the wrath of your shareholders. Why would you expect people who have millions of dollars invested in your company to expect you to do anything OTHER than act like a professional? If my retirement is in your hands I expect you to act like an adult, not a 16-year-old bruh having a good time on twitter.

archon810 8y ago

Musk also replies to user comments all the time and turns their suggestions into reality. He participates in conversations and provides a ton of valuable info on Twitter. That makes him a hell of a lot more interesting than other CEOs.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

That's a fair comment, but it should be noted that with greater power comes greater responsibility. It's also possible that he's an attention seeker, that this is part of his schtick, and that he can't help himself. He's attacked the SEC publicly several times, very unprofessionally, if I were an investor I'd be pissed; it's one thing if he were to have data indicating he's being mistreated but mostly it's but Trumpish attacks on the SEC ... which could get him in serious trouble.