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"(calories in, calories out just doesn't cut it)" Why not? There is not some amazing mystery to why so many people are overweight. They eat more food (energy)

"(calories in, calories out just doesn't cut it)" Why not? There is not some amazing mystery to why so many people are overweight. They eat more food (energy) than there body uses. Possibly over a long period of time. Just look at people's shopping carts at the grocery store. Yes we understand so little of the body's biological processes but that doesn't mean CICO is not an extremely useful idea and something to put into action.

randomFacts 8y ago
The mystery is in why some people eat more than they need and others don't. It's easy to say eat less calories, but until we solve the underlying biological reasons why certain people get full before overeating and don't gain weight and why certain people are always regaining lost weight your solution isn't going to help very many people.(Hint, see the satiety signals and hunger hormone comment I made lower down.)
- dsego 8y ago
  There is a new trend of carnivore diets and I've noticed a lot of testimonials on youtube, where people swear they can eat as much meat as they want and still lose weight. Also some supposedly cured inflammations and other issues, probably because eating only meat is an extreme elimination diet.
  - virtuallynathan 8y ago
    It is however a very tasty elimination diet. I've tried it; ate all kinds of beef, lamb, pork, and fish: muscle meat, liver, roe, eggs, and somes dairy. Re: inflammation - I don't know what my hsCRP was beforehand, but during this experiment it was below the detectable range; all other inflammatory markers were low as well (insulin, IFG-1, fibrinogen, homocysteine, ferritin). I was only hungry about once a day, and leaned out quite a bit.
falcolas 8y ago
How many calories are you taking in? The answer is: It depends. There's a huge number of factors involved in simply identifying the number of calories present in the food we eat. Some studies show as much as a 20% difference in what was on the label and the actual caloric content. And that doesn't even account for how many calories are actually absorbed by the body - a value which has even more confounding factors. How many calories are you expending? The answer is: It depends. How (warm|cold) is it? What's your average body temperature? How much clothing do you wear? What's your genetic makeup? Doing a lot of thinking? What's your current exercise regimen? Is your body in state X where it burns (more|less) calories than state Y? Are you sick? Calories in and calories out sounds good on paper and seem obvious to an engineers mind, but if you can't tell how many calories are involved on each side of the equation, it's a meaningless measure.
- schwap 8y ago
  How many calories are you taking in per day to 0.1 kcal? The answer is if you want to lose weight it doesn't matter. You just need to average a deficit over time. We are not sending a rocket to the moon here. Just because something cannot be measured exactly doesn't mean it's worthless to measure.
  - falcolas 8y ago
    > The answer is if you want to lose weight it doesn't matter. You just need to average a deficit over time. If this were the case, Weight Watchers (which is at its core a calorie limiting system) should have a near 100% success rate. It doesn't. A casual perusal of Google shows closer to a 50% success rate for a 5% body weight change. I can't think of many medical treatments where we go "yeah, a coin toss level of success is good enough for me." As for the accuracy of the measurements - it does matter. Healthy weight loss rates are, mathematically, in the 10% calorie reduction range. That's less than the error rate for the caloric labeling of many foods.
    - sohex 8y ago
      I don't think you can draw meaningful conclusions from a self-enforced system like Weight Watchers either though. Self reporting particularly when it comes to anything diet related is going to be heavily skewed. There will always be social pressures within a group like that to over report exercise and under report intake.
ensiferum 8y ago
Not every calorie is the same or cause the same metabolic effecs. Thats why calorie in calorie out fails. Its about the quality of the food. The real culprit is carbs and especially sugars and high fructose corn syrup which is as good as poison.
- baal80spam 8y ago
  > Not every calorie is the same This is nonsense. It's like saying that not every kilogram is the same.
  - majewsky 8y ago
    > It's like saying that not every kilogram is the same. Would you consider a kilogram of gold "the same as" a kilogram of air? Caloric content refers to the amount of energy released when you literally burn the food in question. But our bodies do not literally burn food. They metabolize it in a sophisticated chemical process that converts said energy into a form that the body can use to do work. The rate and effectiveness of this metabolism is clearly influenced by the type and composition of food. For more information, enter "glycemic index" into your favorite source of knowledge to learn why this measure is important for how food is processed. Just as a small glimpse into the complexity of the metabolism.
    - masonic 8y ago
      Would you consider a kilogram of gold "the same as" a kilogram of air? More relevant would be, "is a kilogram of fat the same as a kilogram of muscle?"
  - ensiferum 8y ago
    This is the basic FUD that that sugar industry is spreading. Currently their strategy is to try to tarnish any study that would find negative health effects from too much sugar intake. It's the same strategy that was used by the tobacco industry many decades ago. Still I'm hoping that some sense will prevail eventually and the sugar industry will be regulated. Before that happens though I'm afraid a lot more people will have to suffer from Type 2 diabetes.

randomFacts 8y ago

The mystery is in why some people eat more than they need and others don't. It's easy to say eat less calories, but until we solve the underlying biological reasons why certain people get full before overeating and don't gain weight and why certain people are always regaining lost weight your solution isn't going to help very many people.(Hint, see the satiety signals and hunger hormone comment I made lower down.)

dsego 8y ago
There is a new trend of carnivore diets and I've noticed a lot of testimonials on youtube, where people swear they can eat as much meat as they want and still lose weight. Also some supposedly cured inflammations and other issues, probably because eating only meat is an extreme elimination diet.
- virtuallynathan 8y ago
  It is however a very tasty elimination diet. I've tried it; ate all kinds of beef, lamb, pork, and fish: muscle meat, liver, roe, eggs, and somes dairy. Re: inflammation - I don't know what my hsCRP was beforehand, but during this experiment it was below the detectable range; all other inflammatory markers were low as well (insulin, IFG-1, fibrinogen, homocysteine, ferritin). I was only hungry about once a day, and leaned out quite a bit.

falcolas 8y ago

How many calories are you taking in? The answer is: It depends. There's a huge number of factors involved in simply identifying the number of calories present in the food we eat. Some studies show as much as a 20% difference in what was on the label and the actual caloric content. And that doesn't even account for how many calories are actually absorbed by the body - a value which has even more confounding factors. How many calories are you expending? The answer is: It depends. How (warm|cold) is it? What's your average body temperature? How much clothing do you wear? What's your genetic makeup? Doing a lot of thinking? What's your current exercise regimen? Is your body in state X where it burns (more|less) calories than state Y? Are you sick? Calories in and calories out sounds good on paper and seem obvious to an engineers mind, but if you can't tell how many calories are involved on each side of the equation, it's a meaningless measure.

schwap 8y ago
How many calories are you taking in per day to 0.1 kcal? The answer is if you want to lose weight it doesn't matter. You just need to average a deficit over time. We are not sending a rocket to the moon here. Just because something cannot be measured exactly doesn't mean it's worthless to measure.
- falcolas 8y ago
  > The answer is if you want to lose weight it doesn't matter. You just need to average a deficit over time. If this were the case, Weight Watchers (which is at its core a calorie limiting system) should have a near 100% success rate. It doesn't. A casual perusal of Google shows closer to a 50% success rate for a 5% body weight change. I can't think of many medical treatments where we go "yeah, a coin toss level of success is good enough for me." As for the accuracy of the measurements - it does matter. Healthy weight loss rates are, mathematically, in the 10% calorie reduction range. That's less than the error rate for the caloric labeling of many foods.
  - sohex 8y ago
    I don't think you can draw meaningful conclusions from a self-enforced system like Weight Watchers either though. Self reporting particularly when it comes to anything diet related is going to be heavily skewed. There will always be social pressures within a group like that to over report exercise and under report intake.

ensiferum 8y ago

Not every calorie is the same or cause the same metabolic effecs. Thats why calorie in calorie out fails. Its about the quality of the food. The real culprit is carbs and especially sugars and high fructose corn syrup which is as good as poison.

baal80spam 8y ago
> Not every calorie is the same This is nonsense. It's like saying that not every kilogram is the same.
- majewsky 8y ago
  > It's like saying that not every kilogram is the same. Would you consider a kilogram of gold "the same as" a kilogram of air? Caloric content refers to the amount of energy released when you literally burn the food in question. But our bodies do not literally burn food. They metabolize it in a sophisticated chemical process that converts said energy into a form that the body can use to do work. The rate and effectiveness of this metabolism is clearly influenced by the type and composition of food. For more information, enter "glycemic index" into your favorite source of knowledge to learn why this measure is important for how food is processed. Just as a small glimpse into the complexity of the metabolism.
  - masonic 8y ago
    Would you consider a kilogram of gold "the same as" a kilogram of air? More relevant would be, "is a kilogram of fat the same as a kilogram of muscle?"
- ensiferum 8y ago
  This is the basic FUD that that sugar industry is spreading. Currently their strategy is to try to tarnish any study that would find negative health effects from too much sugar intake. It's the same strategy that was used by the tobacco industry many decades ago. Still I'm hoping that some sense will prevail eventually and the sugar industry will be regulated. Before that happens though I'm afraid a lot more people will have to suffer from Type 2 diabetes.