5 ms·

Here's some more evidence for the central conceit of this article: Every legitimate long term study of major non surgical weight loss shows that it doesn't hap

by cm2012 8y ago

Here's some more evidence for the central conceit of this article: Every legitimate long term study of major non surgical weight loss shows that it doesn't happen for the vast, vast majority of people. It's basically freakish when succesful in the long term. 1) ["In controlled settings, participants who remain in weight loss programs usually lose approximately 10% of their weight. However, one third to two thirds of the weight is regained within 1 year, and almost all is regained within 5 years. "](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1580453 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1580453) 2) Giant meta study of long term weight loss: ["Five years after completing structured weight-loss programs, the average individual maintained a weight loss of >3% of initial body weight."](http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.full http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.full) 3) Less Scientific: [Weight Watcher's Failure - "about two out of a thousand Weight Watchers participants who reached goal weight stayed there for more than five years."](https://fatfu.wordpress.com/2008/01/24/weight-watchers/ https://fatfu.wordpress.com/2008/01/24/weight-watchers/) 4) [The reason why it's impossible seems to be that although calories in < calories out works, the body of a fat person makes it extremely difficult psychologically to eat less.](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-... http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-...) This is borne out by the above data. 5) [The only thing that does seem to work in the long term is gastric surgery.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1421028/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1421028/) Moreover, you won't find any reputable study on the web where the average person lost 10%+ of their body weight and kept it off for five years. Not even one.

noja 8y ago
> Moreover, you won't find any reputable study on the web where the average person lost 10%+ of their body weight and kept it off for five years. Not even one. What about studies where someone moves from a high-obesity country to a low-obesity country? Is there such a study?
- cm2012 8y ago
  Oo, that's really interesting. I havn't seen one if there is, but I would love to.
  - neaden 8y ago
    It's only looking at moving inside of a country but this article: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abstract/2668504 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abst... finds a link. You've got me curious too so I'll look to see if I can find anything for international travel.
- gomox 8y ago
  Entirely anecdotal, but all my friends that moved to France are now 15-20 pounds lighter than they used to.
yuy910616 8y ago
so if calories in < calories out does not work, what about increasing exercise?
- Kalium 8y ago
  Calories in < calories out is specifically mentioned as working.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- lawn 8y ago
  Exercise is also not the easy answer. Your best bet is still to change what you eat. But it's not "calories in < calories out" that you should focus on. It's the quality of what you eat. For instance it's super easy to overeat calories wise if you eat candy since it doesn't do anything for your hunger, or if it does it makes you crave even more. While it's much harder to overeat on steak.
- cm2012 8y ago
  Calories works if you do it, but doing so requires an unrealistic amount of willpower.
holri 8y ago
> Moreover, you won't find any reputable study on the web where the average person lost 10%+ of their body weight and kept it off for five years. Not even one. It is not a study but I know a person very well that lost 40% 10 years ago and kept it off. Key was changing habits and life style.
vorpalhex 8y ago
I'm not exactly a study test case, but I'm at least an average person who has drastically changed bodyweight (from ~230lbs to 180lbs) and has stayed there for over five years (about 7 years now). This is obviously entirely anecdotal, but what seems to have worked for me is that I didn't do a diet "program", I genuinely changed what I eat. I grew up on fast food and microwave meals primarily, and did most of my gaining when I started working and was eating out much more. I switched to making almost all my own food from basic ingredients (raw meat and vegetables). I occasionally eat out but try to keep it to once a week. I also changed my relationship with the gym, but that's primarily about muscle gain and not weight loss. I suspect that the main problem is that diet programs are just that - a temporary fix that doesn't treat the underlying problem of diet. You are what you eat, ultimately.
Kalium 8y ago
About five to six years ago, I lost in excess of 40% of my body weight over the course of a year (I know, I know, too fast). After that, I've remained within ten pounds of my target weight. It wasn't easy. I basically had to fight my body with my brian every step of the way. It worked through an amount of personal discipline I'm slowly coming to realize is very unusual. Also, some of your links are broken. Looks like mostly malformed markdown.
MiddleEndian 8y ago
I would say such a study is difficult to perform, somebody from the set of people requiring a structured system like weight watchers might be from a different set of people who lose weight through other approaches. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4777230/#!po=5.84416 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4777230/#!po=5.... indicates there are definitely approaches people in the US can take and have taken to reliably maintain weight loss over extended periods of time.
specialp 8y ago
I read the 2/1000 participants lost weight and kept it off on Weight watchers post you cited. It seems highly inaccurate. It considers within 5lbs of target weight as not successful as we cannot know if they were within 5lbs to begin with. But the studies cite 20% with most not being heavier than when they started. You can't join Weight Watchers unless you have 5lbs to lose or more. Probably 90+% of people on diets fail but if 10% can be saved from surgery that really helps. If we've reached the point that we can't stop ourselves from eating outside of changing our digestive system we have a problem. The rise of sedentary jobs along with giant portion sizes is to blame. Not some fundamental condition with human beings.

by cm2012 8y ago

noja 8y ago

> Moreover, you won't find any reputable study on the web where the average person lost 10%+ of their body weight and kept it off for five years. Not even one. What about studies where someone moves from a high-obesity country to a low-obesity country? Is there such a study?

cm2012 8y ago
Oo, that's really interesting. I havn't seen one if there is, but I would love to.
- neaden 8y ago
  It's only looking at moving inside of a country but this article: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abstract/2668504 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abst... finds a link. You've got me curious too so I'll look to see if I can find anything for international travel.
gomox 8y ago
Entirely anecdotal, but all my friends that moved to France are now 15-20 pounds lighter than they used to.

yuy910616 8y ago

so if calories in < calories out does not work, what about increasing exercise?

Kalium 8y ago
Calories in < calories out is specifically mentioned as working.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
lawn 8y ago
Exercise is also not the easy answer. Your best bet is still to change what you eat. But it's not "calories in < calories out" that you should focus on. It's the quality of what you eat. For instance it's super easy to overeat calories wise if you eat candy since it doesn't do anything for your hunger, or if it does it makes you crave even more. While it's much harder to overeat on steak.
cm2012 8y ago
Calories works if you do it, but doing so requires an unrealistic amount of willpower.

holri 8y ago

> Moreover, you won't find any reputable study on the web where the average person lost 10%+ of their body weight and kept it off for five years. Not even one. It is not a study but I know a person very well that lost 40% 10 years ago and kept it off. Key was changing habits and life style.

vorpalhex 8y ago

I'm not exactly a study test case, but I'm at least an average person who has drastically changed bodyweight (from ~230lbs to 180lbs) and has stayed there for over five years (about 7 years now). This is obviously entirely anecdotal, but what seems to have worked for me is that I didn't do a diet "program", I genuinely changed what I eat. I grew up on fast food and microwave meals primarily, and did most of my gaining when I started working and was eating out much more. I switched to making almost all my own food from basic ingredients (raw meat and vegetables). I occasionally eat out but try to keep it to once a week. I also changed my relationship with the gym, but that's primarily about muscle gain and not weight loss. I suspect that the main problem is that diet programs are just that - a temporary fix that doesn't treat the underlying problem of diet. You are what you eat, ultimately.

Kalium 8y ago

About five to six years ago, I lost in excess of 40% of my body weight over the course of a year (I know, I know, too fast). After that, I've remained within ten pounds of my target weight. It wasn't easy. I basically had to fight my body with my brian every step of the way. It worked through an amount of personal discipline I'm slowly coming to realize is very unusual. Also, some of your links are broken. Looks like mostly malformed markdown.

MiddleEndian 8y ago

I would say such a study is difficult to perform, somebody from the set of people requiring a structured system like weight watchers might be from a different set of people who lose weight through other approaches. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4777230/#!po=5.84416 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4777230/#!po=5.... indicates there are definitely approaches people in the US can take and have taken to reliably maintain weight loss over extended periods of time.

specialp 8y ago

I read the 2/1000 participants lost weight and kept it off on Weight watchers post you cited. It seems highly inaccurate. It considers within 5lbs of target weight as not successful as we cannot know if they were within 5lbs to begin with. But the studies cite 20% with most not being heavier than when they started. You can't join Weight Watchers unless you have 5lbs to lose or more. Probably 90+% of people on diets fail but if 10% can be saved from surgery that really helps. If we've reached the point that we can't stop ourselves from eating outside of changing our digestive system we have a problem. The rise of sedentary jobs along with giant portion sizes is to blame. Not some fundamental condition with human beings.