7 ms·

Do you really encounter compiler errors that frequently? The compiler stopped barking at me for the most part after my first year or two.

ryandrake 8y ago
During big refactorings, I admit I sometimes find myself relying on compiler errors as a crutch to find (for example) which API layer I haven’t added the parameter to yet. I’ll also rely heavily on my IDE’s function signature completion, to remind me whether some method I’m calling takes an int or an unsigned int, rather than have it memorized like I used to. This might be why a lot of people (including me) hate whiteboard-coding interviews: we’ve gotten so spoiled by our tools that we can’t code without them!
- zozbot123 8y ago
  > During big refactorings, I admit I sometimes find myself relying on compiler errors as a crutch to find (for example) which API layer I haven’t added the parameter to yet. That's not a 'crutch' - it's literally what those compiler errors are for! The alternative would be for the compiler to do something non-sensical, which would error out at runtime. And when it comes to white-board coding, you should arguably be using pseudo-code anyway - your goal is then not to come up with something that will run, but to convince your interviewer that the code is 'morally' correct and that any subsequent fixes are well within your skill level.
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    My biggest problem with whiteboard coding is writing text in straight lines. You never realize how much of a liability being left handed is until someone asks you to do whiteboard coding (ya, many lefties train for this, but some don’t). Computers have been a godsend for my penmenship. On the other hand, I guess I relied on them too much as a kid.
    - gowld 8y ago
      I thought lefties learn to read and write backwards and then mirror the final result before submission.
      - pjc50 8y ago
        No, we definitely do it forwards; fountain pens and cursive used to be a serious problem, as is having your hand over what you've just written, so I write "overhand". (To see this, do a 45 degree '/' with your right-hand pen, then leave the tip in the middle and make your left hand into a mirror image in the plane of the '/')
        ams6110 8y ago
        My dad was left-handed. He'd use ball-point pens that didn't smear, and when he was taking notes he'd flip the notebook so that the binding was on the right.
        seanmcdirmid 8y ago
        Pens are the worst, they konk out so quickly! iPad pros are really useful here. I wish my hands were transparent, occlusion is also a real problem (it is hard to write a straight line of text if you can't see what has already been written).
- EpicEng 8y ago
  >During big refactorings, I admit I sometimes find myself relying on compiler errors as a crutch to find (for example) which API layer I haven’t added the parameter to yet. Sure, I do the same. I wouldn't call it a 'crutch' though; it's just using the tools you have available to you.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  This might be why a lot of people (including me) hate whiteboard-coding interviews: we’ve gotten so spoiled by our tools that we can’t code without them! Isn't that like someone saying they've gotten so spoiled by training wheels, they can't ride a bike without them? It's not like I'm one to talk 100% of the time. I think I couldn't get my company's project to build, without a few weeks of reading and understanding a lot more of the build system. However, I've also coded on an 8 bit machine by flipping 8 switches and pressing a commit button for each byte. It's a worthwhile exercise to do some coding with nothing but a text editor and a debugger once in a while. That isn't going 100% to the bare metal, but it's a level that's very worthwhile for working on basic skills. Entire programming education books have been based on this idea.
  - btilly 8y ago
    The difference is that training wheels are intended to be a temporary assistance until you've learned to operate without them, while development tools are meant to be a productivity boost. If you're working with a toolchain and aren't leaning on it, you're not working to your full potential. Whether being able to work without the chain is also important is an independent issue. (I happen to prefer vim+scripting languages over IDEs+compiled. But I recognize it as a personal preference, and not a question of moral superiority.)
    - stcredzero 8y ago
      The difference is that training wheels are intended to be a temporary assistance until you've learned to operate without them, while development tools are meant to be a productivity boost. Right, but pro cyclists don't say they couldn't do it without piece of equipment X. X is just a performance boost. Some coders say they couldn't practically do it at all without X. There would be a big difference in fitness between a commuter being unable to make a certain trip without a motor assist, and a rider who could do the same trip without the motor assist. I think most would look askance at a "pro" in the 1st category. If you're working with a toolchain and aren't leaning on it, you're not working to your full potential. Yes, but you need to be wary that you're using the toolchain for its intended purpose. The toolchain is supposed to be saving you typing and lookup time. It's not supposed to be substituting for your actual understanding of the code. The former is a good thing, and you should be good at using the tool for that. The latter is a bad thing, and you shouldn't be doing that. By working out with nothing but an editor sometimes, you can work out in a way that guards against that. No football player plays actual games running through tires, but the exercise is apparently helpful. But I recognize it as a personal preference, and not a question of moral superiority. It's not moral superiority. It's using tools as intended and not substituting for understanding.
commandlinefan 8y ago
> Do you really encounter compiler errors that frequently? He skipped the "ctrl+enter" part of the workflow.

ryandrake 8y ago

During big refactorings, I admit I sometimes find myself relying on compiler errors as a crutch to find (for example) which API layer I haven’t added the parameter to yet. I’ll also rely heavily on my IDE’s function signature completion, to remind me whether some method I’m calling takes an int or an unsigned int, rather than have it memorized like I used to. This might be why a lot of people (including me) hate whiteboard-coding interviews: we’ve gotten so spoiled by our tools that we can’t code without them!

zozbot123 8y ago
> During big refactorings, I admit I sometimes find myself relying on compiler errors as a crutch to find (for example) which API layer I haven’t added the parameter to yet. That's not a 'crutch' - it's literally what those compiler errors are for! The alternative would be for the compiler to do something non-sensical, which would error out at runtime. And when it comes to white-board coding, you should arguably be using pseudo-code anyway - your goal is then not to come up with something that will run, but to convince your interviewer that the code is 'morally' correct and that any subsequent fixes are well within your skill level.
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  My biggest problem with whiteboard coding is writing text in straight lines. You never realize how much of a liability being left handed is until someone asks you to do whiteboard coding (ya, many lefties train for this, but some don’t). Computers have been a godsend for my penmenship. On the other hand, I guess I relied on them too much as a kid.
  - gowld 8y ago
    I thought lefties learn to read and write backwards and then mirror the final result before submission.
    - pjc50 8y ago
      No, we definitely do it forwards; fountain pens and cursive used to be a serious problem, as is having your hand over what you've just written, so I write "overhand". (To see this, do a 45 degree '/' with your right-hand pen, then leave the tip in the middle and make your left hand into a mirror image in the plane of the '/')
      - ams6110 8y ago
        My dad was left-handed. He'd use ball-point pens that didn't smear, and when he was taking notes he'd flip the notebook so that the binding was on the right.
      - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
        Pens are the worst, they konk out so quickly! iPad pros are really useful here. I wish my hands were transparent, occlusion is also a real problem (it is hard to write a straight line of text if you can't see what has already been written).
EpicEng 8y ago
>During big refactorings, I admit I sometimes find myself relying on compiler errors as a crutch to find (for example) which API layer I haven’t added the parameter to yet. Sure, I do the same. I wouldn't call it a 'crutch' though; it's just using the tools you have available to you.
stcredzero 8y ago
This might be why a lot of people (including me) hate whiteboard-coding interviews: we’ve gotten so spoiled by our tools that we can’t code without them! Isn't that like someone saying they've gotten so spoiled by training wheels, they can't ride a bike without them? It's not like I'm one to talk 100% of the time. I think I couldn't get my company's project to build, without a few weeks of reading and understanding a lot more of the build system. However, I've also coded on an 8 bit machine by flipping 8 switches and pressing a commit button for each byte. It's a worthwhile exercise to do some coding with nothing but a text editor and a debugger once in a while. That isn't going 100% to the bare metal, but it's a level that's very worthwhile for working on basic skills. Entire programming education books have been based on this idea.
- btilly 8y ago
  The difference is that training wheels are intended to be a temporary assistance until you've learned to operate without them, while development tools are meant to be a productivity boost. If you're working with a toolchain and aren't leaning on it, you're not working to your full potential. Whether being able to work without the chain is also important is an independent issue. (I happen to prefer vim+scripting languages over IDEs+compiled. But I recognize it as a personal preference, and not a question of moral superiority.)
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    The difference is that training wheels are intended to be a temporary assistance until you've learned to operate without them, while development tools are meant to be a productivity boost. Right, but pro cyclists don't say they couldn't do it without piece of equipment X. X is just a performance boost. Some coders say they couldn't practically do it at all without X. There would be a big difference in fitness between a commuter being unable to make a certain trip without a motor assist, and a rider who could do the same trip without the motor assist. I think most would look askance at a "pro" in the 1st category. If you're working with a toolchain and aren't leaning on it, you're not working to your full potential. Yes, but you need to be wary that you're using the toolchain for its intended purpose. The toolchain is supposed to be saving you typing and lookup time. It's not supposed to be substituting for your actual understanding of the code. The former is a good thing, and you should be good at using the tool for that. The latter is a bad thing, and you shouldn't be doing that. By working out with nothing but an editor sometimes, you can work out in a way that guards against that. No football player plays actual games running through tires, but the exercise is apparently helpful. But I recognize it as a personal preference, and not a question of moral superiority. It's not moral superiority. It's using tools as intended and not substituting for understanding.

commandlinefan 8y ago

> Do you really encounter compiler errors that frequently? He skipped the "ctrl+enter" part of the workflow.