7 ms·

The video is must-watch for those who are unfamiliar with the many ways in which shady vendors game Amazon's systems to scam customers. Speaking as a longtime

by cs702 8y ago

The video is must-watch for those who are unfamiliar with the many ways in which shady vendors game Amazon's systems to scam customers. Speaking as a longtime Amazon customer: * I do feel the authenticity of products in some categories can no longer be taken for granted on Amazon. For example, if I search for electronics, the search results look like "a sea of endless crap," full of the kinds of products you might find at a counterfit-goods store in a shady part of town. * Product search no longer works as well as it did in the past for me. Frequently, I find myself having to invest time and effort to identify which items are of decent or good quality in that "sea of endless crap." I find myself having to click on results and scan descriptions to find products that are sold "by Amazon" instead of third parties, to minimize worry. * Product reviews and ratings no longer seem trustworthy. It's not just that there are large operations cranking out fake reviews every day,[a] but that I often find it time-consuming to sort out which reviews are true versus fake. Fake reviewers seem to be getting better and better at fooling human beings. Over the past year, I've started going to local "brick and mortar" retailers like Best Buy more and more, because I find they provide a better-curated shopping experience. There are fewer products from which to choose, but I feel more certain that they're authentic and of known quality. I'm hoping Amazon will address all these issues... soon. [a] For example, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18262101 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18262101

stupidbird 8y ago
I'm at the point now where I've gone from trusting a review consensus to seeking an individual reviewer on a product that seems thorough and reliable. My favorite example might be trying to find outdoor solar-powered lights. Mountains of garbage, with a lot of sellers just re-branding the same garbage. The silver-lining is that there are power-reviewers out there doing complete tear-downs and reviewing wiring/soldering quality. These people are the true heroes.
- notus 8y ago
  Do any of these people have their own sites for these reviews? The problem is that they are getting buried on Amazon, but I would still like to read them.
  - rubinelli 8y ago
    The circuit I've been following recently for categories I know nothing about is finding a related subreddit, then looking for review sites or YouTube channels they find reliable.
- cs702 8y ago
  The fact that you are the one who has to sort through all those reviews to find the one review that is actually truly helpful... kind defeats the purpose, doesn't it? Isn't Amazon supposed to solve the problem for you, instead of making you solve it?
  - ljf 8y ago
    Totally this! Int he past in the UK - you had a choice for something similar - maybe head to the local Garden Centre and pick up a garden light for an OK price, if nto head somewhere like John Lewis and get a really good one for maybe twice the price, or head to 'local discount store' and get something that might last the summer. But at each price point you knew what you were getting. You didn't have to mess around like this as other than the discount store, the other shops knew that the way to get you to return was to sell quality. At best you'd return the item, at worst you'd never shop there again. My wife used to work in fashion, where they'd cut a square out of the back of every shirt sample that they went on to order, so that they could be sure they got the same material when they got the wholesale order - I wonder if Amazon is going similar?
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  The problem is then you can't always tell if you're getting the same product as that reviewer.
  - dawnerd 8y ago
    A lot of products also have this problem where the listing page will have selectable variations that are totally different products. So naturally one could be total rubbish but the overall review score hides it. Amazon does it with their own basics items so it’s not something just scammers do. Sidenote, their powered usb hubs are garbage. https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-4-Port-USB-2-0-Ultra-Mini/dp/B003M0NURK https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-4-Port-USB-2-0-Ultra-Min...
  - stupidbird 8y ago
    Right, that has happened to me before. I've just returned the item in that case. It seems less likely to happen if the item is fulfilled by Amazon.
- cwkoss 8y ago
  I like outdoor solar-powered lights, could you link a reviewer doing these tear-downs? I'd love to see.
notus 8y ago
I had a recent scenario lately where I bought a small consumer electronic device through Amazon based off of reviews. There were thousands of reviews for this item at the time of purchase. Once the item arrived I realized it didn't work so I went back to the Amazon page and there was now only one 1 star review which was someone wondering what happened to all the reviews that were there a few days ago. There are some questionable things going on with dog food as well. For example I recently purchased a case of a certain dog food my dog has been eating for years. If I click on the product link in my Amazon order history it says that it is sold by the manufacturer of the dog food, but in the Amazon order history itself it says a different store that I've never heard of. The inside of the can looked a little different, less gravy and it made my dog start vomiting almost immediately.
- Wowfunhappy 8y ago
  This has happened to me a couple times as well!
- Antonio123123 8y ago
  The same product can be sold by both amazon and 3rd party. The reviews will be mixed together. Ex: amazon sells tshirt. People post reviews. 3rd party sells tshirt with the same product page as amazon's and the quality is poor. Reviews are mixed together and you can't see the seller on which the review is based.
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    I don't understand why Amazon did this? Surely it's to their benefit to drive sales from good suppliers (if there is more than one supplier) as that leads to more customer satisfaction. It's a bit fraudulent really, like a bait and switch. In reality each page needs a product and supplier rating, and people need to be guided to rate both. Instead you get "this company sacked my daughter; 1 star" and "the postman dropped it; 1 star" type ratings.
    - joshstrange 8y ago
      It makes logistics easier I'd think. The mistake Amazon is making is that Product A is Product A is Product A. It means they have 2 less things to track quantity of and they can have 1 count that matters instead of 3. On the surface it seems 100% logical... Reminds me of story where (and I'm going to butcher parts of this) a town is making a huge vat of wine (or maybe it's food related) and everyone household is supposed to bring a bottle to pour in. A couple of people decide to cheat the system and bring water instead expecting to hide under the radar. It turns out way more people than a few take this path and so the "wine" just tastes like water with a hint of wine in it.
arethuza 8y ago
I've stopped buying electronics from Amazon - it's not like I don't use Amazon for loads of other things (books, audiobooks etc.) but the risk is too high for anything electrical.
ams6110 8y ago
Recently bought some auto parts from Amazon. What I got was low quality, and threads stripped as I was installing. That's now another category of things I won't buy on Amazon.
- beckler 8y ago
  Don't worry. You can still get low quality parts from other places as well. I had to replace the water pump in my car twice in a year because the factory installed one failed, and then the one I installed after that failed within six months.
hnburnsy 8y ago
Agreed, and add on top of that add in the litany of sponsored items, not just at the top and bottom of the page, but randomly embedded in search results with a light gray (rgb(118,118,118)) "Sponsored" label.
edraferi 8y ago
I recently ordered ~$100 of cables from Monoprice and paid $20 for shipping (even though I have prime!) because I don’t trust Amazon. Really, Monoprice wins on discovery too. They offer one of everything at a good price.
- techsupporter 8y ago
  > I recently ordered ~$100 of cables from Monoprice Wow, how did your 3,918 cables arrive? Was it a full-sized goods truck or a couple of crates? (This is, for the unaware, a joke on how inexpensive-yet-still-excellent Monoprice's cables are. Every time I order a clutch of Ethernet or USB cables, I wind up ordering three times as many just to make the order total greater than the shipping total and to have spares for later use.)
  - clairity 8y ago
    monoprice is inexpensive but be certain of ordering what you need because returns are not economical. i ordered two items (among others) that i wasn't sure would work for my application. they didn't, so i requested a return. the return shipping cost was as much as the cables/cords themselves, so now they're just lying around adding clutter to my life.
    - mtnGoat 8y ago
      this is true on amazon as well. $20 mouse cost me $8 to return.
  - hakfoo 8y ago
    I like Monoprice, but their affordable RCA cables are pretty bad. The connectors are stiff and brittle. So the first time you fit it, it requires massive force to get it in place, and if you unplug it a few times, it's so loose it makes no contaact and can't be recrimped. OTOH, fancy RCA cables sell for next to nothing at thrift shops now.
jacobtwotwo 8y ago
Have you tried comparing with something like fakespot? https://www.fakespot.com/ https://www.fakespot.com/
the_watcher 8y ago
I just wish Amazon offered a "verified brand" tag. Sometimes I'm willing to take a gamble on a third party seller to save money or on something that's just for me, but when I'm buying gifts, I want to KNOW the thing I'm buying is really being sold by the manufacturer (or someone they've got a relationship with). It's obscenely difficult to figure this out on Amazon, which has driven me to buy from Walmart.com more often than I would otherwise.
- secabeen 8y ago
  They do, the system is just complicated and focused on high-value branded items.
sct202 8y ago
In a recent report, it was reported that 18% of Amazon's revenue is from these 3rd parties thru fees and services. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/13/amazon-and-publishers-hurting-small-sellers-in-counterfeit-sting.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/13/amazon-and-publishers-hurtin... I wonder how much of that revenue they would lose vs people who would just buy the sold by Amazon equivalent.

by cs702 8y ago

stupidbird 8y ago

I'm at the point now where I've gone from trusting a review consensus to seeking an individual reviewer on a product that seems thorough and reliable. My favorite example might be trying to find outdoor solar-powered lights. Mountains of garbage, with a lot of sellers just re-branding the same garbage. The silver-lining is that there are power-reviewers out there doing complete tear-downs and reviewing wiring/soldering quality. These people are the true heroes.

notus 8y ago
Do any of these people have their own sites for these reviews? The problem is that they are getting buried on Amazon, but I would still like to read them.
- rubinelli 8y ago
  The circuit I've been following recently for categories I know nothing about is finding a related subreddit, then looking for review sites or YouTube channels they find reliable.
cs702 8y ago
The fact that you are the one who has to sort through all those reviews to find the one review that is actually truly helpful... kind defeats the purpose, doesn't it? Isn't Amazon supposed to solve the problem for you, instead of making you solve it?
- ljf 8y ago
  Totally this! Int he past in the UK - you had a choice for something similar - maybe head to the local Garden Centre and pick up a garden light for an OK price, if nto head somewhere like John Lewis and get a really good one for maybe twice the price, or head to 'local discount store' and get something that might last the summer. But at each price point you knew what you were getting. You didn't have to mess around like this as other than the discount store, the other shops knew that the way to get you to return was to sell quality. At best you'd return the item, at worst you'd never shop there again. My wife used to work in fashion, where they'd cut a square out of the back of every shirt sample that they went on to order, so that they could be sure they got the same material when they got the wholesale order - I wonder if Amazon is going similar?
pbhjpbhj 8y ago
The problem is then you can't always tell if you're getting the same product as that reviewer.
- dawnerd 8y ago
  A lot of products also have this problem where the listing page will have selectable variations that are totally different products. So naturally one could be total rubbish but the overall review score hides it. Amazon does it with their own basics items so it’s not something just scammers do. Sidenote, their powered usb hubs are garbage. https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-4-Port-USB-2-0-Ultra-Mini/dp/B003M0NURK https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-4-Port-USB-2-0-Ultra-Min...
- stupidbird 8y ago
  Right, that has happened to me before. I've just returned the item in that case. It seems less likely to happen if the item is fulfilled by Amazon.
cwkoss 8y ago
I like outdoor solar-powered lights, could you link a reviewer doing these tear-downs? I'd love to see.

notus 8y ago

I had a recent scenario lately where I bought a small consumer electronic device through Amazon based off of reviews. There were thousands of reviews for this item at the time of purchase. Once the item arrived I realized it didn't work so I went back to the Amazon page and there was now only one 1 star review which was someone wondering what happened to all the reviews that were there a few days ago. There are some questionable things going on with dog food as well. For example I recently purchased a case of a certain dog food my dog has been eating for years. If I click on the product link in my Amazon order history it says that it is sold by the manufacturer of the dog food, but in the Amazon order history itself it says a different store that I've never heard of. The inside of the can looked a little different, less gravy and it made my dog start vomiting almost immediately.

Wowfunhappy 8y ago
This has happened to me a couple times as well!
Antonio123123 8y ago
The same product can be sold by both amazon and 3rd party. The reviews will be mixed together. Ex: amazon sells tshirt. People post reviews. 3rd party sells tshirt with the same product page as amazon's and the quality is poor. Reviews are mixed together and you can't see the seller on which the review is based.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  I don't understand why Amazon did this? Surely it's to their benefit to drive sales from good suppliers (if there is more than one supplier) as that leads to more customer satisfaction. It's a bit fraudulent really, like a bait and switch. In reality each page needs a product and supplier rating, and people need to be guided to rate both. Instead you get "this company sacked my daughter; 1 star" and "the postman dropped it; 1 star" type ratings.
  - joshstrange 8y ago
    It makes logistics easier I'd think. The mistake Amazon is making is that Product A is Product A is Product A. It means they have 2 less things to track quantity of and they can have 1 count that matters instead of 3. On the surface it seems 100% logical... Reminds me of story where (and I'm going to butcher parts of this) a town is making a huge vat of wine (or maybe it's food related) and everyone household is supposed to bring a bottle to pour in. A couple of people decide to cheat the system and bring water instead expecting to hide under the radar. It turns out way more people than a few take this path and so the "wine" just tastes like water with a hint of wine in it.

arethuza 8y ago

I've stopped buying electronics from Amazon - it's not like I don't use Amazon for loads of other things (books, audiobooks etc.) but the risk is too high for anything electrical.

ams6110 8y ago

Recently bought some auto parts from Amazon. What I got was low quality, and threads stripped as I was installing. That's now another category of things I won't buy on Amazon.

beckler 8y ago
Don't worry. You can still get low quality parts from other places as well. I had to replace the water pump in my car twice in a year because the factory installed one failed, and then the one I installed after that failed within six months.

hnburnsy 8y ago

Agreed, and add on top of that add in the litany of sponsored items, not just at the top and bottom of the page, but randomly embedded in search results with a light gray (rgb(118,118,118)) "Sponsored" label.

edraferi 8y ago

I recently ordered ~$100 of cables from Monoprice and paid $20 for shipping (even though I have prime!) because I don’t trust Amazon. Really, Monoprice wins on discovery too. They offer one of everything at a good price.

techsupporter 8y ago
> I recently ordered ~$100 of cables from Monoprice Wow, how did your 3,918 cables arrive? Was it a full-sized goods truck or a couple of crates? (This is, for the unaware, a joke on how inexpensive-yet-still-excellent Monoprice's cables are. Every time I order a clutch of Ethernet or USB cables, I wind up ordering three times as many just to make the order total greater than the shipping total and to have spares for later use.)
- clairity 8y ago
  monoprice is inexpensive but be certain of ordering what you need because returns are not economical. i ordered two items (among others) that i wasn't sure would work for my application. they didn't, so i requested a return. the return shipping cost was as much as the cables/cords themselves, so now they're just lying around adding clutter to my life.
  - mtnGoat 8y ago
    this is true on amazon as well. $20 mouse cost me $8 to return.
- hakfoo 8y ago
  I like Monoprice, but their affordable RCA cables are pretty bad. The connectors are stiff and brittle. So the first time you fit it, it requires massive force to get it in place, and if you unplug it a few times, it's so loose it makes no contaact and can't be recrimped. OTOH, fancy RCA cables sell for next to nothing at thrift shops now.

jacobtwotwo 8y ago

Have you tried comparing with something like fakespot? https://www.fakespot.com/ https://www.fakespot.com/

the_watcher 8y ago

I just wish Amazon offered a "verified brand" tag. Sometimes I'm willing to take a gamble on a third party seller to save money or on something that's just for me, but when I'm buying gifts, I want to KNOW the thing I'm buying is really being sold by the manufacturer (or someone they've got a relationship with). It's obscenely difficult to figure this out on Amazon, which has driven me to buy from Walmart.com more often than I would otherwise.

secabeen 8y ago
They do, the system is just complicated and focused on high-value branded items.

sct202 8y ago

In a recent report, it was reported that 18% of Amazon's revenue is from these 3rd parties thru fees and services. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/13/amazon-and-publishers-hurting-small-sellers-in-counterfeit-sting.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/13/amazon-and-publishers-hurtin... I wonder how much of that revenue they would lose vs people who would just buy the sold by Amazon equivalent.