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There's no such thing as a free watch (2017)
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- dang 8y agoUrl changed from http://www.jennyodell.com/museumofcapitalism_freewatch.pdf http://www.jennyodell.com/museumofcapitalism_freewatch.pdf to a non-pdf version.
- LeoPanthera 8y agoSee also this spoof guide from the "watches" subreddit, "How to create a unique/successful minimalist watchbrand": https://imgur.com/a/6CNO8 https://imgur.com/a/6CNO8
- beloch 8y agoThis is, honestly, better than the article that started this discussion!
- irrational 8y agoThat's some affordable luxury right there.
- moate 8y agoJust the best craftsmanship really.
- DenisM 8y agoI wish it talked more about the actual logistics of manufacturing the watch. Is there a factory in china that will take your design and ship you a box of made watches? I just might be tempted to make a limited run.
- simlevesque 8y agoCheck on Alibaba for something similar and contact the seller.
- qwerty000 8y agoThat’s the easy part, hard part is the 50-100k needed for influencers
- pizza 8y agoIf you weren't getting a "They Live" vibe from this whole thing, then, whew those interstitials will definitely do the trick
- neogodless 8y agoSeems to pop up every once in a while. Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15154934 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15154934
- csours 8y agoTANSTAAFL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain%27t_no_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain%27t_no_such_thing_as... Also, people will pay more for a good story. --- > "25. Maybe this explains what’s so galling to people about the Folsom & Co. not-really-scam: It simply lays bare the categorical deception at the heart of all branding and retail. The different watch values are, in the strictest sense, speech acts: the watch is $29.99 because someone said it’s $29.99. It’s $29.99 because a certain person is wearing it on Instagram; it’s $29.99 because it’s photographed next to flannel and a Chemex. While “Bradley” of “Bradley’s men’s shop” may not be the most fleshed-out character, he – and the entire existence of Folsom & Co., Soficoastal, etc. – are examples of the now-household term, “brand storytelling.” And the internet makes it possible for anyone to tell any story, about anything, from anywhere." --- > " thateffingasian: Capitalism is making your own product and selling it. Capitalism isn't buying a piece of shit and telling people they're worth 25x the price, and lying to them about the actual value of the product. Your idea of capitalism is fucked up @soficoastal. Then the idiots blocked me, LOL. " If Capitalism isn't buying shit and lying about it to sell it for higher, I don't know what Capitalism is. This is only a difference in degree, not kind.
- timr 8y ago"If Capitalism isn't buying shit and lying about it to sell it for higher, I don't know what Capitalism is. This is only a difference in degree, not kind." I'm neutral on the question in this case, but really, any discussion of "capitalism" that goes beyond chapter one, page one of an undegrad economics textbook covers the point that efficient markets are not deceptive markets. Participants are assumed to share equal information. HN's understanding of capitalist theory seems to begin and end at the phrase, "supply and demand", and everything that has a two-sided market is otherwise A-OK. In this particular case, consumers are sort-of informed, but it's also a lot harder to be informed than it used to be. I'm someone who tries to find high-quality items, and even I screw up on a regular basis. I wouldn't fall for this one, though.
- adminu 8y agoWell, and advertisement is meant to be "information". Textbook capitalism is just not a good model of real world capitalism.
- 1zee 8y agoa relevant aside, the Reply All podcast episode on drop-shipping is a great listen
- teachrdan 8y agoI chatted briefly with the author of this piece, who said that apparently the only people making money on these watches are online "marketing gurus" who will teach you how to get rich selling free watches.
- LargeWu 8y agoIt's absolutely true. I sell screen printed t-shirts that I design and print myself, as a hobby, and as such I spend some time trying to improve my sales. The facebook group I'm part of is lousy with people trying to sell these same cheap watches, jewelry, etc., complaining that they can get lots of traffic via Instagram but no sales. I would wager 50% of them at least will never make a single sale. The rest might make a few sales but never come close to a positive ROI.
- pvarangot 8y agoDropshipping from China has a bad reputation but it can be done correctly and ethically. You can say you manufacture and ship from your partners in China, and you can pay for modifications, better QA like with stickers and number engraving and traceability, tracking in the shipment... even for some certified ISO processes. Not defending what this fake stuff brands are doing, and they not only exist for watches but also for jewelry, leather bracelets, etc, etc... but just saying it's also comparable to what cheap shopping mall brands sometimes do with accessories and watches but adding renting and expensive place in the middle and marking up everything way more.
- JetSpiegel 8y ago> Dropshipping (...) can be done correctly and ethically "Ethical dropshipping" is the new baroque simplicity.
- mti27 8y ago>Instagram-savvy version of the fake watches one sees being hawked on the sidewalks of tourist cities. I bought a "Tagheuer" watch on the streets of NYC for five dollars. At a glance, it looked OK but by the end of a day's wear it had completely self destructed.
- kwhitefoot 8y agoI bought a 'Cartier' ladies quartz watch on the street in Bangkok for my wife twenty years ago for five USD and it still works. The band has lost some of its black colour but apart from that it works perfectly, keeps good time, and looks pretty good. Don't know it it is true but the movement inside claims to be Swiss.
- benj111 8y agoI like the screenshotted (shat?) conversation. Customer> I can buy this watch for $2 elsewhere. Retailer> Then why are you here? On some level, yes they're selling overpriced rubbish, but then everyone else is, especially in fashion. Their sin seems to be making it explicit. How long before people are buying these watches to make post modern 'statements'?
- sneakernets 8y ago> How long before people are buying these watches to make post modern 'statements'? I'm sure that's already a thing, sadly.
- rezmason 8y agoSays you! http://freegoldwatch.com/newhome/home.html http://freegoldwatch.com/newhome/home.html https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7680459,-122.4526923,2a,75y,187.74h,73.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEYfaaHp7FjZEqdPOb2lzgw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7680459,-122.4526923,2a,75y,...
- owenversteeg 8y agoI love this! I commented on this article about my own experience starting a "watch business" when it was originally posted about a year ago and it seemed to get a decent amount of votes and attention so I figure I'll re-post it below: [original w/comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15158422 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15158422] ----- So a few years back I started a watch company in a similar way. I think I was actually one of the first to do it, since when I started I couldn't find many competitors. I tried a million kinds of promotions, from "free, you just pay for shipping" to offering people discounts and referral codes. I actually created my own watch designs (well, modifications of the face, case, and strap with the same Chinese movement.) Some of my improvements started to be used by the manufacturers. I'm not at all invested in it anymore: I left the business after selling a substantial, but not massive number of watches and finding that it wasn't terribly profitable if you included the cost of advertising, shipping, and (most importantly) my own time. My own "watch company" was more real in a few ways: watches that I did in fact design myself, shipped from my address in the US, and the quality of the watches was actually quite good. To this day I wear a watch from my company and it has held up to an incredible amount of abuse. I say this as someone who (used to) collect watches. I also was upfront about the cost of shipping and the watch itself - I might have, for example, a banner that says "Free 3-Day US Shipping" and then the price of the watch would be clearly labeled as $20, so people would know that they would only be paying a total of $20 for the watch. The prices varied a lot over time, from $10 to $40 per watch, but surprisingly my profit was never huge even though I only spent about $3 on the watch itself and $7 on shipping. If anyone's curious about the whole thing (and lives in the Netherlands) I still have hundreds of these watches and I'd be happy to sit down over a coffee, tell my stories from the business and show the watches. (My email's in my profile.) ---- A few comments I'd like to add now, in 2018: 1) the watches (mine & that of other "companies") are of a surprisingly high quality in many cases. Not always, but often. For example, my watch has survived everything from bilge fluids to boiling water and it's the same cheap one I sold. Definitely far more durable than a comparable mechanical watch. I can see myself still using this thing 10+ years down the line. Furthermore, it actually does look classy and I get compliments on it. Most of the time, if you buy a cheap $3 Chinese alternative to something that's normally 10-1000x the price, it is neither beautiful nor durable. 2) The unexpectedly high quality of the watches is what fueled the explosion of sites IMO. You don't see "free earbuds", "free clock", or "free keyboard" sites, despite the fact that all 3 of these things are available for under $5 shipped from China. What I think happened is that people bought a watch on a whim, then it arrived and they realized "wow, this feels like a premium product!" Which it did! I was blown away when I first saw the quality level and instantly thought I should start a business. I suspect hundreds of other people had this same "eureka!" moment. When you get a $5 Aliexpress keyboard, it feels and looks like it cost $5 to make, and it excites nobody. Furthermore, Amazon makes a $13 keyboard with great reviews, and being Amazon it ships with Prime instead of "30-to-infinity day slow-boat-from-China shipping." Meanwhile, these watches felt like they cost at least $20 to make, and the only competitors for classy analog watches would be $50-100 or so, but they cost $3 (drop)shipped! 3) I highly doubt anyone made much money. When I started, dropshipping was not a thing the manufacturers offered (probably the reason why I was one of the first.) When manufacturers started offering dropshipping, these "businesses" exploded because you could suddenly run them entirely behind a laptop. The problem, of course, was that the number of such "companies" exploded, all competing for the same customers, Facebook ads, Google results, "underground marketing" spots, etc etc. That led to people getting a bit suspicious. If you saw one ad for a cool watch, maybe you were interested, but if you saw 20 in a week, all suspiciously similar, you'd think something's up.
- tomatotomato37 8y agoFrom 19: Feels and is a scam. Worst ever. I live in SF where it "claims to be" Why the hell is my shipment coming from Shanghai? Going to miss my girlfriends gift date. WASTE of MONEY! What kind of person gifts their girlfriend a free watch
- bartread 8y agoSomebody who's pretty short of cash, I imagine.
- rmason 8y agoWhy is it that each generation needs to relearn that there is no free anything? In my grandfathers day it was a free lunch. Today a free watch and tomorrow a free light saber perhaps?
- avip 8y agoMy grandfather used to say "it's too cheap, we can't afford it".
- antongribok 8y agoMy father used to say: "We're not rich enough to buy cheap things."
- halbritt 8y agoTANSTAAFL - from Heinlein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain%27t_no_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain%27t_no_such_thing_as...
- hn_throwaway_99 8y agoThe article is really not very much about the concept of a "free lunch" as more of a concept of how these pseudo-watch brands are laying bare the absurdity inherent in all fashion and branding.
- CapacitorSet 8y agoWe really do live in a dystopia.
- Empact 8y agoIf scammy, semi-fraudulent watch sites constitute our dystopia, I’m relieved. These scams are as old as commerce. Just more easily propagated using modern tools. They’re the reason Consumer Reports and reveiw publications exist. Caveat emptor.
- redial 8y agoThis companies are no different than any other company in the history of business. The only thing I can think of is the fact that in this case you can easily track the supplier and find out the "original price" of the item in a way that is very hard to do for let's say a pair of Nike shoes, but that's about it. Walmart is also full of these watches and you can believe they don't sell them for $5. Or do you really think it costs Dell exactly $679,95 to build a laptop on one of their entirely owned factories where they manufacture and store every single component that goes into it? And, if you call them now they even give you a $200 discount because wouldn't you know it they just happened to have a "promotion" just for you? There is no such thing as a free anything, yet when Apple offers FREE BEATS WITH EVERY MAC PURCHASE no magazine would dare to call them out on the obvious fact that both of these items are so "overpriced" that they can even afford to give one away "for free" and still come out ahead. They instead run "articles" praising what a great value the offer is and also you should act now before the sale is over. This "article" could be written about any company, literally any company.
- smiley325 8y agoI think the key difference is in how truthful the marketing stories are. Apple/microsoft sell you a hypothetical future, while these watch "brands" sell a made-up past. Neither are 100% facts but one is clearly less savory than the other.
- redial 8y ago> Apple/microsoft sell you a hypothetical future, while these watch "brands" sell a made-up past. You must be in marketing as that made absolutely no sense. Do you think Apple's usb-c charging cable, which is currently listed on their site[1] for $19.99 costs them anywhere close to that to source? and at the same time tries to sell you a hypothetical future? wow, they do have good marketing. If anything these watch brands, and I don't know why you put it in quotes as if to take legitimacy away from them but whatever, have more things in common with Apple than with someone selling the same watches such as "Walmart", as they are both trying to decouple the object from the sale and make it about the experience. They all make stuff up, and when they don't they hide the information so you don't find out. That is why Apple will never say the price they pay for the leather Macbook sleeve they are currently charging $199 for[2]. I suspect very few people will buy it if they advertise right next to the price the 12 dollars it is actually costing them. To be clear, I am not against any of this, anyone can charge whatever they want. Apple is certainly doing very well charging the prices they do. I am just impressed that people, most of all here, where people that actually build and sell products, actually price and order components and actually manage a supply chain, hang act so surprised to the fact that markup exists and that marketing is used to justify it. And I am not defending this crappy watches or this shady company; I wouldn't buy a needle from them. All I am saying is that they are not any more shady than 95% of the "brands" out there that are actually owned by a mega conglomerate and never disclose it anywhere when trying to sell purified water to hipster college students on their way to protests against capitalism or whatever. [1] https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MUF72AM/A/usb-c-charge-cable-1-m https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MUF72AM/A/usb-c-charge-ca... [2] https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MRQU2ZM/A/leather-sleeve-for-15-inch-macbook-pro-midnight-blue https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MRQU2ZM/A/leather-sleeve-...
- chaostheory 8y ago> J. Crew now uses the brand for a line of high-end women’s clothing. Its marketing draws heavily on the age of the original Madewell, and J. Crew is fond of including “since 1937” under the logo. This is part of a larger effort to portray the Madewell brand in retrospect as a venerable, solid company known for craftsmanship and quality. This is a really old strategy for getting credibility. Some scholars believe that Sun Tzu's Art of War is really much younger than what is claimed in the book. They believe that Sun Tzu focused on the book's supposed age and history, in order to give it more credibility.
- jboles 8y agoThis is like the 2010’s equivalent of getting ‘white vanned’. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_van_speaker_scam https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_van_speaker_scam
- nithi2023 8y agoYou guys didn't know about freedom phone scam happened in India :D