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While I understand the perceived geopolitical need for energy independence, I sure hope we don't develop this. With recent reports like the NCA4 (nca2018.global
by glup 8y ago
While I understand the perceived geopolitical need for energy independence, I sure hope we don't develop this. With recent reports like the NCA4 (nca2018.globalchange.gov), it's pretty clear things are going to get a whole lot worse with climate change, that will take a very long time to retool our infrastructure even with a strong economic incentive. Cheap and plentiful oil certainly doesn't help.
I also think that flying over this region (Permian basin / western Texas) on a clear day is --- as it is currently, without further extraction --- one of the best ways to understand the sheer scale of energy extraction required to support the American economy and lifestyle. If you haven't seen it, check out the satellite imagery of Pyote, TX on Google Maps or similar.
- txcwpalpha 8y agoFlying over the oil fields is fascinating (I personally find the South Texas oil fields at night to be even more so), but the other interesting perspective that you get to see is the massive wind farms just a handful of miles away from the oil farms. They're harder to see on Google maps (since the turbines are vertical rather than taking up a lot of horizontal space), but if you're on a flight or driving through the area you can really get a sense of the scale of them. Some of them are even larger than the oil fields, and yet they hardly extract even a fraction of the energy. For all the faults of Texas's oil fields, the state is also at the forefront of wind energy. But the reality is that we're still nowhere near being able to afford not drilling.
- joe_the_user 8y agoWhen drilling (taken broadly as exploiting hydrocarbons to the hilt) has the potential for the extinction of the species and wind-farms and renewables generally have the potential to provide sufficient energy for species survival, yeah, we can afford not to drill. Energy density isn't everything. There's also not dying in fire/floods/tornadoes/civil-unrest.
- ryanmarsh 8y agoFlying over south Texas oil fields... are you thinking of Texas City or Pasadena? Those aren’t oilfields. They’re refineries.
- txcwpalpha 8y agoNope, I was referring to the massive group of oil fields called the Eagle Ford play that stretches from the Mexico border near Hidalgo, going Northeast all the way up until I-10 east of San Antonio. See this photo: https://s.hdnux.com/photos/17/05/74/3956516/5/920x920.jpg https://s.hdnux.com/photos/17/05/74/3956516/5/920x920.jpg
- dreamcompiler 8y ago> Some of them are even larger than the oil fields, and yet they hardly extract even a fraction of the energy Total energy extracted over a couple of centuries is dramatically higher with wind. Oil is stored solar energy that eventually runs out; wind is realtime solar energy that never runs out.
- yostrovs 8y agoIt does run out when there's no wind.
- ThomPete 8y agoCheap and plentiful oil helps poor countries dealing with climate change way better than expensive and inflexible renewables. This is the actual dilemma that is worth discussing, not whether rich nations who can afford the way more expensive and much less scaleable renewables. But most of the political elite dont care cause they have found a new political course to use as a way to control many voters.
- nixpulvis 8y agoRenewable power can be less expansive and more reliable for things like small islands and places where importing oil is hard. Not to mention the fact that it's much better to build clean/green infrastructure first. Of course a micro grid system like I'm talking about might also use some Dino fuels too. http://microgridnews.com/microgrid-value-propositions/ http://microgridnews.com/microgrid-value-propositions/
- ThomPete 8y agoI dont thinks thats true. Oil isnt great but its much more flexible and accessible that expensive solar or wind. Of course all that is dwarfed by nuclear but thats a whole other story.
- dreamcompiler 8y ago"Solar is expensive" is no longer true. Wholesale PV panels are less than $1 per watt now; this is 1/10 the price of 15 years ago. PV electricity is cost-comparable to coal-fired electricity in many places, and is on track to be cheaper than coal everywhere very soon [0]. This happened largely because China has been dramatically increasing their PV manufacturing capacity to the point that almost no other country makes solar panels any more, but still, the fact is that today solar is cheap and getting cheaper. [0] https://www.technologyreview.com/s/608114/clean-energy-prices-are-about-to-become-cheaper-than-coal/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/608114/clean-energy-price...
- ThomPete 8y ago
- snowmaker 8y agoWow, thanks for the suggestion to look at the Google maps imagery of Pyote, TX. I had heard about the Permian basis but never seen it - the drill sites just look endless. Direct link for anyone curious: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pyote,+TX/@31.5739608,-103.2111312,24877m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x86fae651d3968a89:0x6b8ab034ccfa4719!8m2!3d31.5348555!4d-103.1262722 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pyote,+TX/@31.5739608,-103...
- godzillabrennus 8y agoIn 2016 nuclear generated energy accounted for 19.7% of the USA’s total electric energy generation yet comprised nearly 60% of the USA’s emission-free generation. We need more nuclear.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- labster 8y agoSounds great, can we build nuclear in your back yard?
- bscphil 8y agoYes, please do.
- idiot900 8y agoI volunteer my backyard as well!
- craftyguy 8y agoYes. Where do I sign up?
- doggydogs94 8y agoIt is because of irrational fears of nuclear power like yours that global warming will get much worse before it gets better.
- klyrs 8y agolol I can't afford a back yard but if my apartment building had a nuclear generator in the basement I'd be pretty happy about that
- doggydogs94 8y agoIt is because of irrational fears of nuclear power like yours that global warming will get much worse before it gets better.
- emmelaich 8y agoIn my first visit to Los Angeles, I was amazed to see oil pumps. I had no idea that that was a thing.
- dreamcompiler 8y agoLA doesn't talk about it loudly these days, but it was built on oil [0]. There are still oil pools at ground level in LA [1]. [0] https://www.stand.la/history-of-oil-in-los-angeles.html https://www.stand.la/history-of-oil-in-los-angeles.html [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Brea_Tar_Pits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Brea_Tar_Pits
- emmelaich 8y agoI had heard of the tar pits beforehand, and even visited them while was there. But hadn't made the inference that there would be still viable oil wells!
- dfilppi 8y agoIf the people dont demand the resources, they wont be developed.