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I don't get the scare mongering in this discussion. People are saying to always boil the water, to not cook with hot tap water, etc. Don't these people bathe in

I don't get the scare mongering in this discussion. People are saying to always boil the water, to not cook with hot tap water, etc. Don't these people bathe in hot tap water? Don't they drink cold tap water? Do they all live in areas with super unsafe tap water? Or is there a specific danger that comes from the water going up your nostrils? (Which can easily happen while bathing) What am I missing here?

legohead 8y ago
109 cases in a little over 40 years.. yeah, this is more of a freak occurrence. also, the article says they never tested the water, so this idea of the neti pot is just a guess to begin with.
- 8bitsrule 8y ago
  There must have been something else involved. Should we not swim in pools, rivers or lakes, or submerge ourselves in hot tubs? Netis are part of Ayurvedic medicine in India since long before people dreamed of personal immortality. Remember when people worked outside all summer without worrying about excess UV? Maybe we're overthinking this stuff, we Chicken Little emulators.
  - copperx 8y ago
    Spending a large part of the day under direct sunlight (e.g., working in a farm), is known to paradoxically reduce the risk of skin cancer; whereas occasional exposure (e.g., working at a desk job and then sunbathing in Cancun) greatly increases the risk. Perhaps we're not overthinking it. Maybe there are complex processes that we don't yet understand.
    - User23 8y ago
      This phenomenon has been well known for almost all of history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithridatism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithridatism https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK349158/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK349158/
    - ejstronge 8y ago
      This is interesting - do you have a source for this?
  - taneq 8y ago
    You absolutely should not get river or lake water in your sinuses if you can help it. The lake I used to swim in as a kid would regularly get warm enough to have amoeba in it that could cause amoebic meningitis and we were always told to keep our heads above water.
  - duskwuff 8y ago
    > Netis are part of Ayurvedic medicine in India since long before people dreamed of personal immortality. Yes. And in that time period, average life expectancy was somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 years. The risk of death from neti pot use was hardly significant compared to all the other health risks anyone living at the time would be exposed to. The same goes for skin cancer. It's a meaningful risk to us today because we can live long enough for the cumulative damage from solar radiation to be a meaningful cause of mortality.
    - erik_seaberg 8y ago
      30 is the mean between infants and 60-year-olds. There has never been a society in which dying at 30 was typical.
      - TheCoelacanth 8y ago
        Infant mortality was the biggest contributor, but there was also higher mortality across all age groups.
    - 8bitsrule 8y ago
      IMO most of 'average life expectancy' can be attributed to human ignorance and savagery. Like the savagery of pouring dyes into rivers until too many people die of bladder cancer, then moving the factories to another continent. Repeatedly. Or the savagery of using scientific knowledge to create nukes ... and use them. One example of ignorance is knee-jerk, gainsaying, scientism about alternatives to Western medicine. My use of Neti was recommended by a well-trained physician, and it was very beneficial. There was indeed practical wisdom in the world before the rise of materialist rationalism. Oh yeah... and western medicine couldn't save the lady's ass. I'm sure the bill was VERY healthy though.
novia 8y ago
There is a specific danger associated with the water going up your nose. Things that go up your nose have better access to the blood brain barrier. Don't snort unboiled water kids.
- Tharkun 8y ago
  Source? 'access to the blood brain barrier' sounds odd. You make it sound like the BBB magically starts in the nostrils and is somehow weak there. That's not how the BBB works. Sure, your nostrils are closer to your brain than, say, your teeth, but not by much.
  - baddox 8y ago
    I’m fairly sure that different body parts do provide easier access to the blood brain barrier. In this case, I would guess that it’s because of the mucous membranes in the nasal cavity. There must be a reason people snort cocaine rather then just rub it on their hands.
    - ec109685 8y ago
      Great comment. They don’t dissolve it into water and gargle either.
  - novia 8y ago
    https://www.futurity.org/nasal-spray-brain-cancer-1859772/ https://www.futurity.org/nasal-spray-brain-cancer-1859772/ My wording was a bit off. The nerves in your nasal passageways apparently bypass the bbb altogether.
chrissam 8y ago
> I don't get the scare mongering in this discussion. People are saying to always boil the water, to not cook with hot tap water, etc. Don't these people bathe in hot tap water? Don't they drink cold tap water? Do they all live in areas with super unsafe tap water? My understanding is that you can generally drink water with this amoeba in it and be fine. This makes sense intuitively - our digestive systems evolved to handle "adversarial inputs". > Or is there a specific danger that comes from the water going up your nostrils? (Which can easily happen while bathing) It seems that this particular amoeba only enters the body through the nose, so yes. Also, a significant amount of water doesn't usually go up your nostrils when bathing or swimming unless something goes wrong. And if it does, you experience a painful sensation that will immediately compel you to clear your airway. But, looking it up, it appears that swimming in amoeba-infected water can lead to infection. Still, I imagine a neti pot is a great way to increase chance of infection because you're pouring lots of water through your nasal cavity, which is not something that happens while bathing or swimming.
Latteland 8y ago
What you are missing is that there is a particular organism that is not killed by normal safe water treatment and has been found in many city water supplies. When you drink it or get it on your body it doesn't matter, your digestive system handles it, that's why they don't have a concern with normal use. You can eat it, put it on your skin, it's okay. But this particular organism can hurt you if it goes into your nostrils. It is found in many city water supplies, and I suppose the reason is there's something about typical water treatment that doesn't kill it. In both cities I have lived in it was there. My wife use's neti pots and knew about this. The first time I heard you couldn't use tap water for your nose, I thought it must be wrong, because "of course tap water is safe and treated". I have also swam in fresh water pools, usually a natural hot springs, that has a warning about this same organism. If you swim and water gets in your nose in those pools there is a chance it could get into your brain and kill you.
Dowwie 8y ago
The source of the tap water matters. The article doesn't appear to mention this important detail.

legohead 8y ago

109 cases in a little over 40 years.. yeah, this is more of a freak occurrence. also, the article says they never tested the water, so this idea of the neti pot is just a guess to begin with.

8bitsrule 8y ago
There must have been something else involved. Should we not swim in pools, rivers or lakes, or submerge ourselves in hot tubs? Netis are part of Ayurvedic medicine in India since long before people dreamed of personal immortality. Remember when people worked outside all summer without worrying about excess UV? Maybe we're overthinking this stuff, we Chicken Little emulators.
- copperx 8y ago
  Spending a large part of the day under direct sunlight (e.g., working in a farm), is known to paradoxically reduce the risk of skin cancer; whereas occasional exposure (e.g., working at a desk job and then sunbathing in Cancun) greatly increases the risk. Perhaps we're not overthinking it. Maybe there are complex processes that we don't yet understand.
  - User23 8y ago
    This phenomenon has been well known for almost all of history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithridatism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithridatism https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK349158/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK349158/
  - ejstronge 8y ago
    This is interesting - do you have a source for this?
- taneq 8y ago
  You absolutely should not get river or lake water in your sinuses if you can help it. The lake I used to swim in as a kid would regularly get warm enough to have amoeba in it that could cause amoebic meningitis and we were always told to keep our heads above water.
- duskwuff 8y ago
  > Netis are part of Ayurvedic medicine in India since long before people dreamed of personal immortality. Yes. And in that time period, average life expectancy was somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 years. The risk of death from neti pot use was hardly significant compared to all the other health risks anyone living at the time would be exposed to. The same goes for skin cancer. It's a meaningful risk to us today because we can live long enough for the cumulative damage from solar radiation to be a meaningful cause of mortality.
  - erik_seaberg 8y ago
    30 is the mean between infants and 60-year-olds. There has never been a society in which dying at 30 was typical.
    - TheCoelacanth 8y ago
      Infant mortality was the biggest contributor, but there was also higher mortality across all age groups.
  - 8bitsrule 8y ago
    IMO most of 'average life expectancy' can be attributed to human ignorance and savagery. Like the savagery of pouring dyes into rivers until too many people die of bladder cancer, then moving the factories to another continent. Repeatedly. Or the savagery of using scientific knowledge to create nukes ... and use them. One example of ignorance is knee-jerk, gainsaying, scientism about alternatives to Western medicine. My use of Neti was recommended by a well-trained physician, and it was very beneficial. There was indeed practical wisdom in the world before the rise of materialist rationalism. Oh yeah... and western medicine couldn't save the lady's ass. I'm sure the bill was VERY healthy though.

novia 8y ago

There is a specific danger associated with the water going up your nose. Things that go up your nose have better access to the blood brain barrier. Don't snort unboiled water kids.

Tharkun 8y ago
Source? 'access to the blood brain barrier' sounds odd. You make it sound like the BBB magically starts in the nostrils and is somehow weak there. That's not how the BBB works. Sure, your nostrils are closer to your brain than, say, your teeth, but not by much.
- baddox 8y ago
  I’m fairly sure that different body parts do provide easier access to the blood brain barrier. In this case, I would guess that it’s because of the mucous membranes in the nasal cavity. There must be a reason people snort cocaine rather then just rub it on their hands.
  - ec109685 8y ago
    Great comment. They don’t dissolve it into water and gargle either.
- novia 8y ago
  https://www.futurity.org/nasal-spray-brain-cancer-1859772/ https://www.futurity.org/nasal-spray-brain-cancer-1859772/ My wording was a bit off. The nerves in your nasal passageways apparently bypass the bbb altogether.

chrissam 8y ago

> I don't get the scare mongering in this discussion. People are saying to always boil the water, to not cook with hot tap water, etc. Don't these people bathe in hot tap water? Don't they drink cold tap water? Do they all live in areas with super unsafe tap water? My understanding is that you can generally drink water with this amoeba in it and be fine. This makes sense intuitively - our digestive systems evolved to handle "adversarial inputs". > Or is there a specific danger that comes from the water going up your nostrils? (Which can easily happen while bathing) It seems that this particular amoeba only enters the body through the nose, so yes. Also, a significant amount of water doesn't usually go up your nostrils when bathing or swimming unless something goes wrong. And if it does, you experience a painful sensation that will immediately compel you to clear your airway. But, looking it up, it appears that swimming in amoeba-infected water can lead to infection. Still, I imagine a neti pot is a great way to increase chance of infection because you're pouring lots of water through your nasal cavity, which is not something that happens while bathing or swimming.

Latteland 8y ago

What you are missing is that there is a particular organism that is not killed by normal safe water treatment and has been found in many city water supplies. When you drink it or get it on your body it doesn't matter, your digestive system handles it, that's why they don't have a concern with normal use. You can eat it, put it on your skin, it's okay. But this particular organism can hurt you if it goes into your nostrils. It is found in many city water supplies, and I suppose the reason is there's something about typical water treatment that doesn't kill it. In both cities I have lived in it was there. My wife use's neti pots and knew about this. The first time I heard you couldn't use tap water for your nose, I thought it must be wrong, because "of course tap water is safe and treated". I have also swam in fresh water pools, usually a natural hot springs, that has a warning about this same organism. If you swim and water gets in your nose in those pools there is a chance it could get into your brain and kill you.

Dowwie 8y ago

The source of the tap water matters. The article doesn't appear to mention this important detail.