4 ms·

These articles are coming thick and fast from three sources: The Washington Post, New York Times and Bloomberg. Nobody else (BBC, Australia, etc.) seems to be r

These articles are coming thick and fast from three sources: The Washington Post, New York Times and Bloomberg. Nobody else (BBC, Australia, etc.) seems to be reporting the same, which leads me to believe there's a political element to this reporting, particularly amidst the current "trade war". (We don't see a rash of "US Economy Shows Sharply" every time something goes wrong for the US, although the trend is arguably toward crumbling infrastructure and reduced competitiveness across the board.) Against what therefore appears to be a propaganda-laden media landscape, I would merely add the observation that Chinese people and companies can more easily stomach slowdowns than the US because they save, don't tend to live highly leveraged and on subscription like Americans, don't need cars, and don't have a culture of mutual litigation or life-crushing medical bills. Therefore, to an American reading "these people lost their jobs a couple of months early" the effect is insanely worrisome and they believe this to be a huge problem. In China, having an extended holiday from your seasonal factory job is generally a non-issue... these people can either hang around and get other work, or economically hibernate back at home sharing meals with family and passing time on a tiny budget. It's a different world.

whyonearth 8y ago
Surely the markets took a hit today because the world's financial centers have all been duped by such propaganda. Look, even China-friendly South China Morning Post is in on the con, despicable. https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/2178089/china-economy-needs-new-stimulus-plan-after-november-data https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/2178089/c...
- contingencies 8y ago
  On the contrary, SCMP is HK based and can often be seen to publish articles openly critical of Beijing, despite mainland ownership. (Edit: response to below: Yes, I think "formerly independent" as Wikipedia states is perhaps a good summary of SCMP's status, but I don't follow China media much. Used to read FEER a lot years ago, that was great but switched to a closed model and the best journos (some of whom I know) all left.)
  - whyonearth 8y ago
    I get that you're in China and that everything's relative, but we are comparing SCMP to other globally respected mainstream news sources, and with that reference point it tends towards Chinese interests. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_China_Morning_Post#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_China_Morning_Post#Contr...
    - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
      SCMP is about as China critical as one gets in the worldwide press. Sure, it’s not as critical as the newspaper owned by Falan Gong (Epoch Times), but it is comparable to any western one. Even after the Alibaba article, a significant share of China critical articles that make it to HN’s front page still seem to be form SCMP.
ct520 8y ago
/me Googles "bbc china economy slows" Sees that you are wrong on first assertion. If opinionated is truthy stops reading comment. next
- contingencies 8y ago
  There has been some coverage however it seems to me to be notably less frequent. Maybe because I read too much HN so catch a lot of China articles here from US sources. (Edit: Reply to below: Domestically there is a common acknowledgement of slowdown versus a few years ago, largely effecting real estate, high end discretionary spending such as luxury malls, and high end restaurants and nightclubs. I have not personally noticed any mass unemployment despite often visiting seasonal worker factory areas - including Dongguan pictured in the article - which would nominally be the first affected. Over the last 15 years, food retail prices have risen ~6-10x, faster than salaries (~3-7x?), but you can still get a good breakfast for under USD$1.)
  - ct520 8y ago
    Gotcha, so what is your opinion living in China? Do you notice it?
gamblor956 8y ago
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45910262 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45910262 1 second on Google to confirm you're wrong about the reporting being political. Also, you must be unfamiliar with American media. They've been posting negative articles about the economy for months, with different publications focusing on different parts of the US economy.
- SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
  Agreed. These articles about China slowing are if anything begrudgingly positive for Trump. If GP thinks NYT, WaPo, and Bloomberg are lining up to make pro-Trump propaganda... well, clearly not familiar with US Media.
_dark_matter_ 8y ago
Given your premise that American media is reporting Chinese Economic Slowdowns more widely than other country's media, there are two options: 1. Conspiracy - They are working together, and perhaps with the government and other private entities, to sow a particular narrative 2. Profit - Their audiences are particularly interested in these stories, given the e.g. aforementioned trade war I'll leave it to the reader to decide which of these it might _actually_ be.
- crazynick4 8y ago
  Do these necessarily have to be exclusive? The CIA is known to have made organized attempts to influence the media in the past. Virtually every government does this, it seems implausible to me that we (the US) would be the only ones with 'objective' reporting. Of course you simply have to namedrop the term 'conspiracy' to get a knee-jerk reaction and have everyone lean in the opposite direction of what is otherwise a relatively reasonable option.
  - tehduder9 8y ago
    ok..
- contingencies 8y ago
  Another respondent suggested: 3. Bubble chamber effect. I'll leave it to you to determine whether your false dichotomy is therefore on the rocks.
str33t_punk 8y ago
Your 'observation' doesn't seem to match reality. From what I have read, China has had a huge increase in household debt over the last few years. Perhaps five years ago there where not many Chinese people living with debt, but that is no longer the case. Some have even been calling it a credit bubble Random article about this I googled: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-02-15/chinese-consumers-are-building-up-too-much-household-debt https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-02-15/chines... In other regards, I have read about the Chinese Economy slow down in non American sources, such as the Economist. However, I will agree that I see it the most in US media (the WSJ seems to have a pretty negative outlook on the Chinese Economy right now)
rellui 8y ago
Your post actually makes me question why it's on the top? Who's up voting it when a simple google search proves your statment wrong?
- ct520 8y ago
  My guess, China #1 On another note interesting to see a point of view from someone that lives in China... pretty much what I expected.
- sctb 8y ago
  Comments start at or near the top, then the voting happens.
lambdasquirrel 8y ago
I’ve sometimes wondered if there is a journalistic bubble chamber.
- contingencies 8y ago
  I think this (and an 'English language media on China bubble chamber') is probably far closer to the truth than the "conspiracy" being put forward by others. Quite amused at multiple "Googled so it must be true" responses.
  - Gigablah 8y ago
    You’d think people would have learned something after Bloomberg’s Super Micro shenanigans.
ashray5 8y ago
Financial Times (UK version of Wall Street Journal) is reporting the same. Let's not build a conspiracy theory and ignore the hard evidence.
largehotcoffee 8y ago
You're wrong.
Laforet 8y ago
Just because there is a coordinated media campaign does not necessarily invalidate the issue being presented. For example, MSM reporting on Venezuela's economy ramped up significantly from early 2016 to coincide with a diplomatic push for regime change. Fast forward to present day, Maduro is stil president but the economy is definitely in a even worse shape. Not to mention a lot of the structural problems were already present before Chavismo so their current position wa made inevitable decades ago. P.S. Chinese households have already leveraged themselves to the brim in the last couple of years, thanks to real estate speculation. Opinions differ on exact figures but most estimates place average household debt in the range of 80% to 100% of disposable income which is close to that of the USA. The government's finances are in okay shape but the people's are definitely not.
- contingencies 8y ago
  Sure, there are issues and there is definitely a speculatory angle to Chinese real estate. That's not debatable. However, I don't think there's an average Chinese household, and it's hard to interpret these genericized and simplified third or fourth hand statistics and draw any valid conclusions. In short, I don't believe (though do not fully dimiss) random other-language reported numbers reported in tabloid format, rather I am inclined believe the people and my own eyes.

whyonearth 8y ago

Surely the markets took a hit today because the world's financial centers have all been duped by such propaganda. Look, even China-friendly South China Morning Post is in on the con, despicable. https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/2178089/china-economy-needs-new-stimulus-plan-after-november-data https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/2178089/c...

contingencies 8y ago
On the contrary, SCMP is HK based and can often be seen to publish articles openly critical of Beijing, despite mainland ownership. (Edit: response to below: Yes, I think "formerly independent" as Wikipedia states is perhaps a good summary of SCMP's status, but I don't follow China media much. Used to read FEER a lot years ago, that was great but switched to a closed model and the best journos (some of whom I know) all left.)
- whyonearth 8y ago
  I get that you're in China and that everything's relative, but we are comparing SCMP to other globally respected mainstream news sources, and with that reference point it tends towards Chinese interests. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_China_Morning_Post#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_China_Morning_Post#Contr...
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    SCMP is about as China critical as one gets in the worldwide press. Sure, it’s not as critical as the newspaper owned by Falan Gong (Epoch Times), but it is comparable to any western one. Even after the Alibaba article, a significant share of China critical articles that make it to HN’s front page still seem to be form SCMP.

ct520 8y ago

/me Googles "bbc china economy slows" Sees that you are wrong on first assertion. If opinionated is truthy stops reading comment. next

contingencies 8y ago
There has been some coverage however it seems to me to be notably less frequent. Maybe because I read too much HN so catch a lot of China articles here from US sources. (Edit: Reply to below: Domestically there is a common acknowledgement of slowdown versus a few years ago, largely effecting real estate, high end discretionary spending such as luxury malls, and high end restaurants and nightclubs. I have not personally noticed any mass unemployment despite often visiting seasonal worker factory areas - including Dongguan pictured in the article - which would nominally be the first affected. Over the last 15 years, food retail prices have risen ~6-10x, faster than salaries (~3-7x?), but you can still get a good breakfast for under USD$1.)
- ct520 8y ago
  Gotcha, so what is your opinion living in China? Do you notice it?

gamblor956 8y ago

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45910262 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45910262 1 second on Google to confirm you're wrong about the reporting being political. Also, you must be unfamiliar with American media. They've been posting negative articles about the economy for months, with different publications focusing on different parts of the US economy.

SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
Agreed. These articles about China slowing are if anything begrudgingly positive for Trump. If GP thinks NYT, WaPo, and Bloomberg are lining up to make pro-Trump propaganda... well, clearly not familiar with US Media.

_dark_matter_ 8y ago

Given your premise that American media is reporting Chinese Economic Slowdowns more widely than other country's media, there are two options: 1. Conspiracy - They are working together, and perhaps with the government and other private entities, to sow a particular narrative 2. Profit - Their audiences are particularly interested in these stories, given the e.g. aforementioned trade war I'll leave it to the reader to decide which of these it might _actually_ be.

crazynick4 8y ago
Do these necessarily have to be exclusive? The CIA is known to have made organized attempts to influence the media in the past. Virtually every government does this, it seems implausible to me that we (the US) would be the only ones with 'objective' reporting. Of course you simply have to namedrop the term 'conspiracy' to get a knee-jerk reaction and have everyone lean in the opposite direction of what is otherwise a relatively reasonable option.
- tehduder9 8y ago
  ok..
contingencies 8y ago
Another respondent suggested: 3. Bubble chamber effect. I'll leave it to you to determine whether your false dichotomy is therefore on the rocks.

str33t_punk 8y ago

Your 'observation' doesn't seem to match reality. From what I have read, China has had a huge increase in household debt over the last few years. Perhaps five years ago there where not many Chinese people living with debt, but that is no longer the case. Some have even been calling it a credit bubble Random article about this I googled: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-02-15/chinese-consumers-are-building-up-too-much-household-debt https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-02-15/chines... In other regards, I have read about the Chinese Economy slow down in non American sources, such as the Economist. However, I will agree that I see it the most in US media (the WSJ seems to have a pretty negative outlook on the Chinese Economy right now)

rellui 8y ago

Your post actually makes me question why it's on the top? Who's up voting it when a simple google search proves your statment wrong?

ct520 8y ago
My guess, China #1 On another note interesting to see a point of view from someone that lives in China... pretty much what I expected.
sctb 8y ago
Comments start at or near the top, then the voting happens.

lambdasquirrel 8y ago

I’ve sometimes wondered if there is a journalistic bubble chamber.

contingencies 8y ago
I think this (and an 'English language media on China bubble chamber') is probably far closer to the truth than the "conspiracy" being put forward by others. Quite amused at multiple "Googled so it must be true" responses.
- Gigablah 8y ago
  You’d think people would have learned something after Bloomberg’s Super Micro shenanigans.

ashray5 8y ago

Financial Times (UK version of Wall Street Journal) is reporting the same. Let's not build a conspiracy theory and ignore the hard evidence.

largehotcoffee 8y ago

You're wrong.

Laforet 8y ago

Just because there is a coordinated media campaign does not necessarily invalidate the issue being presented. For example, MSM reporting on Venezuela's economy ramped up significantly from early 2016 to coincide with a diplomatic push for regime change. Fast forward to present day, Maduro is stil president but the economy is definitely in a even worse shape. Not to mention a lot of the structural problems were already present before Chavismo so their current position wa made inevitable decades ago. P.S. Chinese households have already leveraged themselves to the brim in the last couple of years, thanks to real estate speculation. Opinions differ on exact figures but most estimates place average household debt in the range of 80% to 100% of disposable income which is close to that of the USA. The government's finances are in okay shape but the people's are definitely not.

contingencies 8y ago
Sure, there are issues and there is definitely a speculatory angle to Chinese real estate. That's not debatable. However, I don't think there's an average Chinese household, and it's hard to interpret these genericized and simplified third or fourth hand statistics and draw any valid conclusions. In short, I don't believe (though do not fully dimiss) random other-language reported numbers reported in tabloid format, rather I am inclined believe the people and my own eyes.