5 ms·

> yet Tesla pushed the entire world to electrify transport Oil prices, pollution laws and incentives did, Tesla was the only one in position to profit for it t

> yet Tesla pushed the entire world to electrify transport Oil prices, pollution laws and incentives did, Tesla was the only one in position to profit for it timely Every company has an electric car in their blueprints, Tesla is the right size to benefit for the small demand that the market created on its own They turned a hundred million so profit this year right? That's not even enough to consider ending the market for the larger companies. Comparatively they could earn those profit just by tweaking a decimal on their car financing services interest.

api 8y ago
I'm less optimistic about the conventional auto industry. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that conventional auto companies had to be dragged kicking and screaming into marketing desirable EVs. The conventional auto industry is full of ICE heads and hates EVs, and many of the dealers and unions and auto ecosystem companies also hate EVs because EVs require less maintenance. No oil changes, less moving parts, etc. Most people will resist change until they are forced into it. Even then some people will literally go down with the ship.
- clouddrover 8y ago
  > The conventional auto industry is full of ICE heads and hates EVs That doesn't correspond with the practical realities. Here are some battery electrics that will be released across the next two years, some of which are already available: https://www.myev.com/research/interesting-finds/hottest-new-evs-coming-for-2019-2020 https://www.myev.com/research/interesting-finds/hottest-new-... Look at what a company like Hyundai is doing. Hyundai produces hydrogen fuel cell cars: https://www.hyundai.de/Modelle/NEXO.html https://www.hyundai.de/Modelle/NEXO.html Hyundai (with Kia) produces EV versions of the Hyundai Kona and the Kia Niro, two battery electrics with good range at a more affordable price than the luxury EVs: https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric https://www.kia.com/uk/new-cars/all-new-e-niro/ https://www.kia.com/uk/new-cars/all-new-e-niro/ Hyundai also has plans for on-car solar: https://electrek.co/2018/10/31/hyundai-kia-solar-roof-electric-vehicles/ https://electrek.co/2018/10/31/hyundai-kia-solar-roof-electr... I don't think any of this adds up to them hating EVs. Hyundai is ahead of most companies on the road to the practical, affordable EV.
koreyb 8y ago
GM lost $3.9bn last year. There is a reason GM, Audi, Daimler etc are shifting to electric vehicles.
- LoSboccacc 8y ago
  As I said, everyone has plans but the market is quite small for the big companies to move. GM turned a loss selling nine million vehicles or so, opening a whole line to enter a market which is moving just one million units or so competing with players like Tesla that operate at almost a loss make zero sense. They'll keep their design fresh and up to date to be ready when the time comes, but so far it's territory of steps and smaller companies that can profit from small production runs
  - koreyb 8y ago
    As I said, there is a reason they are all switching to EVs. The Tesla Model S, in its main US market, is the leader in the luxury car market. Model 3 is the #1 selling car by revenue. Production is limited to 2 US factories. Worldwide numbers go up fast when they have a Euro factory, Chinese factory, etc. > GM turned a loss selling nine million vehicles or so, opening a whole line to enter a market which is moving just one million units or so competing with players like Tesla that operate at almost a loss make zero sense. And yet they are doing it.
    - LoSboccacc 8y ago
      > And yet they are doing it. Yes that why they killed the volt
    - koreyb 8y ago
      Volt is a hybrid. They are increasing production of their EV Bolt. And plan on 20 new all-electric vehicles globally by 2023.
mixmastamyk 8y ago
Reminds me of "the Innovator's Dilemma." Established companies are not able take advantage of lower profit margins, but growing ones are.
leesec 8y ago
>Every company has an electric car in their blueprints, Tesla is the right size to benefit for the small demand that the market created on its own They have those blueprints because of Tesla, they were not going to be nearly as quick to market with electric cars before hand.
- LoSboccacc 8y ago
  > They have those blueprints because of Tesla https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1 https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/ZEROEMISSION/HISTORY/RNESSAEV/ https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/ZEROEMISSION/HISTORY/RNESSA... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV they're all sitting on a lot of technology, the current volume doesn't justify them to push into production, where tesla could use their gung-ho startup attitude and startup capital to run off the equivalent of rounding error for the establishment
cjhopman 8y ago
> Tesla was the only one in position to profit for it timely They're currently down about $15 billion dollars (and a couple billion more in incentives).

api 8y ago

I'm less optimistic about the conventional auto industry. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that conventional auto companies had to be dragged kicking and screaming into marketing desirable EVs. The conventional auto industry is full of ICE heads and hates EVs, and many of the dealers and unions and auto ecosystem companies also hate EVs because EVs require less maintenance. No oil changes, less moving parts, etc. Most people will resist change until they are forced into it. Even then some people will literally go down with the ship.

clouddrover 8y ago
> The conventional auto industry is full of ICE heads and hates EVs That doesn't correspond with the practical realities. Here are some battery electrics that will be released across the next two years, some of which are already available: https://www.myev.com/research/interesting-finds/hottest-new-evs-coming-for-2019-2020 https://www.myev.com/research/interesting-finds/hottest-new-... Look at what a company like Hyundai is doing. Hyundai produces hydrogen fuel cell cars: https://www.hyundai.de/Modelle/NEXO.html https://www.hyundai.de/Modelle/NEXO.html Hyundai (with Kia) produces EV versions of the Hyundai Kona and the Kia Niro, two battery electrics with good range at a more affordable price than the luxury EVs: https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric https://www.kia.com/uk/new-cars/all-new-e-niro/ https://www.kia.com/uk/new-cars/all-new-e-niro/ Hyundai also has plans for on-car solar: https://electrek.co/2018/10/31/hyundai-kia-solar-roof-electric-vehicles/ https://electrek.co/2018/10/31/hyundai-kia-solar-roof-electr... I don't think any of this adds up to them hating EVs. Hyundai is ahead of most companies on the road to the practical, affordable EV.

koreyb 8y ago

GM lost $3.9bn last year. There is a reason GM, Audi, Daimler etc are shifting to electric vehicles.

LoSboccacc 8y ago
As I said, everyone has plans but the market is quite small for the big companies to move. GM turned a loss selling nine million vehicles or so, opening a whole line to enter a market which is moving just one million units or so competing with players like Tesla that operate at almost a loss make zero sense. They'll keep their design fresh and up to date to be ready when the time comes, but so far it's territory of steps and smaller companies that can profit from small production runs
- koreyb 8y ago
  As I said, there is a reason they are all switching to EVs. The Tesla Model S, in its main US market, is the leader in the luxury car market. Model 3 is the #1 selling car by revenue. Production is limited to 2 US factories. Worldwide numbers go up fast when they have a Euro factory, Chinese factory, etc. > GM turned a loss selling nine million vehicles or so, opening a whole line to enter a market which is moving just one million units or so competing with players like Tesla that operate at almost a loss make zero sense. And yet they are doing it.
  - LoSboccacc 8y ago
    > And yet they are doing it. Yes that why they killed the volt
  - koreyb 8y ago
    Volt is a hybrid. They are increasing production of their EV Bolt. And plan on 20 new all-electric vehicles globally by 2023.

mixmastamyk 8y ago

Reminds me of "the Innovator's Dilemma." Established companies are not able take advantage of lower profit margins, but growing ones are.

leesec 8y ago

>Every company has an electric car in their blueprints, Tesla is the right size to benefit for the small demand that the market created on its own They have those blueprints because of Tesla, they were not going to be nearly as quick to market with electric cars before hand.

LoSboccacc 8y ago
> They have those blueprints because of Tesla https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1 https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/ZEROEMISSION/HISTORY/RNESSAEV/ https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/ZEROEMISSION/HISTORY/RNESSA... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV they're all sitting on a lot of technology, the current volume doesn't justify them to push into production, where tesla could use their gung-ho startup attitude and startup capital to run off the equivalent of rounding error for the establishment

cjhopman 8y ago

> Tesla was the only one in position to profit for it timely They're currently down about $15 billion dollars (and a couple billion more in incentives).