7 ms·

> free delivery from Whole Foods via Prime Now More like "free". Amazon preselects $5 tip for the delivery. I don't have to tip the FedEx driver, why should I

• lawnchair_larry 8y ago
  Do you tip pizza delivery, or do you say that you don’t tip fedex so you won’t tip pizza either? Arguably, pizza delivery drivers do even less work than Instacart people who have to shop on your behalf and wait in checkout lines etc.
  • saidajigumi 8y ago
    Tipping is a weirdly American phenomenon. Travel, for example, to the EU or other parts of the world where there's no tipping. Workers are paid a living wage and have benefits (esp. in countries that didn't go with employer-supplied benefits in the wake of WWII). They want no part of "tipping". Combine that with VAT-using countries, and it's delightful to look at a restaurant menu and realize there's zero obfuscation about what the final bill will be. Not to mention tipping as a vehicle for wage theft, and playing into a generally regressive compensation system.
    • dgzl 8y ago
      I'm strongly against tipping, but I also don't need more reasons for Americans to dislike me, so I tip anyway.
      • saidajigumi 8y ago
        Agreed: not tipping as an individual act in the US makes you a jerk, hurting workers without changing the system. Such change would probably have to be brought about via legislation that rolled up a combination of wage and benefits reforms.
        • Amezarak 8y ago
          The workers don’t want the system to be changed. I worked in restaurants for six years, and most of my friends still do. Servers make 2-3x what kitchen staff do, sometimes even better. Even on the very worst nights in the cheapest restaurants I’ve never seen a server come away with less than kitchen staff. Cash tips are also often underreported. Good nights can be absolutely fantastic. I’ve earned an entire 40 hour kitchen check in three hours waiting tables. Kitchen staff wouldn’t mind, managers wouldn’t mind, probably even owners wouldn’t mind so much, but servers would be mass protesting if you eliminated tipping. They want you to raise their employer-paid wage, sure. Affordable health insurance would be great. But they absolutely do not want an end to tipping. And no, no employer is going to pay servers what they’d make with tips on an average night, and even if they did, kitchen staff would go on strike unless they got it too. And then you’re looking at food prices skyrocketing.
          • dgzl 8y ago
            You make great points, but none of them justify the practice. Don't you find it curious how the rest of the world can manage this situation without tipping?
            • Amezarak 8y ago
              I don’t think there’s something so wrong with the practice that it needs to be justified. If you don’t want to tip, don’t. Believe me, not everyone tips. I’m not sure what the real problem with it (the wage issue, at least for restaurants, is a red herring$ other than it makes some people who dislike social interactions uncomfortable.
              • sharkmerry 8y ago
                do you not tip out the kitchen staff, etc? you are all part of the chain, why not pay everyone the same?
                • Amezarak 8y ago
      • MisterTea 8y ago
        tl;dr when in Rome... I'm a NYC native, and I tip because I realize that the system is rigged to enable food and entertainment employers to take advantage of there employees. Yea, I don't like it either. But it's here so I just roll with it.
        • dgzl 8y ago
          > the system is rigged to enable food and entertainment employers to take advantage of there employees. And tipping is offsetting that burden to the customer.
    • robertAngst 8y ago
      You say this is a good thing, until you go to Europe and get treated terrible service. I was seriously confused why our waters werent getting filled up, despite walking 10+ miles before noon. Or why the waiter wasnt coming to our table to take our order. Or why the waiter didn't check on us. After sharing this story with locals, it seems their expectations are far less for restaurants. I don't have much of an opinion on how to pay waiters, but Italy did not impress me.
      • saidajigumi 8y ago
        I'm not familiar with Italy specifically, but note that service expectations differ broadly in the EU. In many countries, customers expect to be left alone until they signal the wait staff for something. The American notion of staff that hovers over and/or badgers you constantly is largely absent. In the countries I've travelled to, I've generally had excellent service, bearing the above in mind.
        • chimeracoder 8y ago
          > The American notion of staff that hovers over and/or badgers you constantly is largely absent. This is a straw man. Nobody in the US expects this - and in fact, it's rare that this even happens. At most the server will "interrupt" you once once your food arrives to check in, and even that varies by restaurant. > In many countries, customers expect to be left alone until they signal the wait staff for something I think you're missing what people are talking about when they talk about "terrible or slow service" in Europe. It's not that they wait for you to signal to them, but that they take so long to appear where you can find them in the first place, and that once you do grab their attention, they still take ages to actually come and serve you. They're not necessarily doing anything important or urgent (chatting idly with their coworkers, wiping down the bar, what have you), and it's eminently clear that they simply don't view providing prompt and effective service to customers as their priority. I could give countless stories of how slow and inefficient service in Europe tends to be, or even how downright rude servers can be. For the record, yes, this is a strictly European phenomenon. There are plenty of other places in the world (both where tipping is expected and where it isn't) where this is not an issue.
    • fossuser 8y ago
      This hasn't been my experience at least in the UK where they hand you the credit card device and then explain how you can add a tip.
      • Normal_gaussian 8y ago
        An occurrence I hate. Personally I didn't see it at all until about ten years ago, it tends to arise at those same establishments that interrupt your conversation to ask you if you are "fine".
    • dlevine 8y ago
      There was an episode of "Adam Ruins Everything" about this. Basically, during prohibition, restaurants couldn't sell alcohol (which was their biggest profit center), so in order to stay afloat, they cut staff wages and introduced the concept of tipping to cover the gap. It kind of stuck since then.
      • dragonwriter 8y ago
        > There was an episode of "Adam Ruins Everything" about this. Basically, during prohibition, restaurants couldn't sell alcohol (which was their biggest profit center), so in order to stay afloat, they cut staff wages and introduced the concept of tipping to cover the gap. So, I guess its time for an episode of “Dragonwriter Ruins Adam Ruins Everything”. Americans imported the practice of tipping from Europe just after the civil war (some accounts say as an excuse for restaurant owners not to pay newly-freed blacks working as servers, but that's less than clear, though where such workers were common, it was certainly leveraged for that purpose), and there was criticism of the new but rapidly-spreading practice as unamerican and pro-aristocratic in the late 19th Century, before prohibition. Heck, here's a pre-Prohibition (1916) book about the practice of tipping in America, which even recounts past legislative efforts to stop it: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/33170/33170-h/33170-h.htm http://www.gutenberg.org/files/33170/33170-h/33170-h.htm So, no, it didn't start in response to Prohibition.
        • gcbw2 8y ago
          regardless of the real reason, it is to offset 100% of the risk to the employees (no business, no tip, no salary), while keeping >80% of the profits (lot's of business, staff keep at most 20%) all while making the client be the jerk.
          • code_duck 8y ago
            It’s basically a ‘gig economy’. Waitstaff hang out and wait for customers to come in, who they may serve for the chance to make $1-5 a customer.
    • dragonwriter 8y ago
      > Tipping is a weirdly American phenomenon Oddly, imported fairly late in American history from Europe.
    • sgc 8y ago
      They don't necessarily have a living wage and many hold down more than one job. But in general yes they have state provided health services.
    • edanm 8y ago
      > Tipping is a weirdly American phenomenon. Where did you get that idea? Just a quick glance at the Wiki article on tipping shows that tipping shows up in plenty of places outside of America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity
  • sfilargi 8y ago
    What I find strange about tipping is that the employees get pissed of with the customer if he doesn't tip. If I was in their shoes I would be pissed of with my employer for making "beg" the customers for getting my salary. Imagine if as a software engineer I was told I would be paid half of what I am getting paid now, and for the other half I would have to go and ask for a "tip" from the end users. I would be absolutely furious.
    • wybiral 8y ago
      The problem is that it's the norm in the US. If you have a service job (waiting tables, delivering pizza, etc) that's just how it works. You'd have to change the type of work you do because it doesn't differ much between employers.
      • sfilargi 8y ago
        Aren't there any unions for the these kind of jobs?
        • 51lver 8y ago
          For positions filled people that are completely replaceable in hours, including finding and training them?
          • sfilargi 8y ago
            The answer might be obvious to you, but it is not to me. That's why I asked..
        • berbec 8y ago
          It's very hard to unionize. I ran a pizzaria for about 10 years and was the owner operator it for another 5. The employment length of tipped employees typically is around 6 months. With people coming and going so quickly, it's hard to develop the bonds that allow such organizing.
    • chipotle_coyote 8y ago
  • wpietri 8y ago
    Personally, I tip people where their individual initiative and personal service makes a difference. A food delivery driver is supposed to get things to me very promptly and in very good condition. The Fedex driver is just following orders. As long as the box arrives that day and is more or less on my porch, it's fine.
  • elvirs 8y ago
    the local pizza shop does not belong to the richest guy in the world. the same richest guy who squeezes every drop of tax deductions and other inventives from the government to fun his business with my tax money.
  • SilasX 8y ago
    Ever notice how this discussion evolves consistently, like clockwork every time? This person/role looks like someone deserving of a tip -> Tipping is stupid, do it like Europe. -> Service in Europe sucks. -> That's just a different kind of service/What about Japan? -> You can't compare, that's a different culture.
    • chimeracoder 8y ago
      > Ever notice how this discussion evolves consistently, like clockwork every time? This person/role looks like someone deserving of a tip -> Tipping is stupid, do it like Europe. -> Service in Europe sucks. -> That's just a different kind of service/What about Japan? -> You can't compare, that's a different culture. It makes perfect sense when you view it in the broader theme of HN loving to demonstrate the "superiority" of European culture, oftentimes taking inconsistent stances on different issues in order to maintain that position.
    • vidoc 8y ago
      An interesting angle perhaps we could discuss is how much of the persistence of this barbarian culture that tipping is, has to do with the fact that in the US, the expectations that displayed prices are final isn't very strong anymore, to the point that we now forget to identify obvious robberies in plain sight. Like this intellectual construction for openly ripping you off of your money by calling something a 'fee' :)
  • MichaelApproved 8y ago
    Of course I tip but my point isn't that I won't tip, it's that you can't call it free shipping if tipping is customary. Reread my comment.
  • behringer 8y ago
    You're confusing a tip with a fee. A 5 dollar mandatory tip is no tip at all.
  • bby 8y ago
    I'm American and I do not tip.
  • craftyguy 8y ago
    No, I don't tip pizza delivery drivers. The whole tipping 'culture' here in the US is silly, and I refuse to take part unless an individual exceeds my expectations. Then they get a tip.
• benatkin 8y ago
  With Whole Foods, Amazon could probably foot the bill for the tip themselves, with the excess price on just a few items. For instance, consider two 6 oz packs of non-organic blueberries that they charge $5 a pack for but that they could easily charge $3 a pack for. That's $4 on the two packs. Add some overpriced lettuce and some overpriced carrots, and you've exceeded the $5. I don't spend money on any Amazon products or services at all these days, and if it was possible to spend negative money, I would. Edit: forgot about AWS. I do spend money on Amazon stuff. Not much on my personal account, but some for clients.
  • WillPostForFood 8y ago
    How do you know they can make $2 on $5 organic blueberries in the winter that they have to ship in from Peru or Mexico? $5 is a typical price I see for organic at other stores as well.
    • benatkin 8y ago
      This is the non-organic ones. The organic ones are 6 bucks. At another grocery store a mile away the non-organic ones are about one dollar per package right now. Shipping is cheap. The prices fluctuate but whole foods tends to keep it higher than what other stores charge when they're out of season, except when they're on sale. They go on sale based on the season but don't always go on sale when they're in season.
• mey 8y ago
  They would build a convenience or surcharge into it one way or another. A food delivery service near me adds a delivery fee, tip option, AND has drastically increased prices even compared to the restaurants normal delivery service. Passing it off as a tip is probably a way to make it less offensive to the American consumer who is used to tipping service people.
• resters 8y ago
  Exactly. Foisting the decision about tipping onto the customer is a major cop out that reduces the convenience of the service.