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So it's worth noting that allegations about organ harvesting have been circulating since at least the 2000s. There is likely (almost certainly) credibility in t

So it's worth noting that allegations about organ harvesting have been circulating since at least the 2000s. There is likely (almost certainly) credibility in the claims that political prisoners (mostly Falun Gong practitioners) were harvested for organs in the early 2000s. From what I can tell, the tribunal is validating that these abuses occurred. However, there is not any hard evidence (that I know of - I'd be happy to be corrected) of recent harvesting or coerced organ donation from recent years - in particular, in 2015 China agreed to stop using prisoners as organ sources (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/04/china-stop-using-executed-prisoners-organs-transplant-demand-donations https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/04/china-stop-usi...). So I'll be curious to hear the final report - whether it mentions recent abuses or not.

ryanmarsh 8y ago
This would be easy to confirm. How many heart transplants took place in China in 2017? Then find an explanation for the source.
seanmcdirmid 8y ago
China agreed to stop using prisoners as forced organ donors many times before 2015. They didn't even say "we really mean it this time", so I'm not sure how much credibility you can take from their statement. The big problem is that the provinces and local governments aren't really that great at following the central government's direction unless the latter is really serious (who can't focus their attention on some many things).
- ryacko 8y ago
  China has mass surveillance. The amount of money that would change hands for organs would raise red flags, as well as the likelihood of using a known broker.
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    Just because China has mass surveillance and is partially a police state, it still is a chaotic place where you can mostly jay walk with impunity. State organs are poorly organized and integrated, and there is no easy way to verify the implementation of whatever edicts come from the top. The central government also don't care if some local politicians are involved in the prison organ trade for a few extra rambos, as long as they keep it under the radar....
  - trhway 8y ago
    >The amount of money that would change hands for organs would raise red flags you probably haven't noticed that China is the country of red flags? http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-10/08/c_134693630.htm http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-10/08/c_134693630.htm (sorry, man, you've just walked into a similar old USSR (also a country of red flags in all the senses) joke)

ryanmarsh 8y ago

This would be easy to confirm. How many heart transplants took place in China in 2017? Then find an explanation for the source.

seanmcdirmid 8y ago

China agreed to stop using prisoners as forced organ donors many times before 2015. They didn't even say "we really mean it this time", so I'm not sure how much credibility you can take from their statement. The big problem is that the provinces and local governments aren't really that great at following the central government's direction unless the latter is really serious (who can't focus their attention on some many things).

ryacko 8y ago
China has mass surveillance. The amount of money that would change hands for organs would raise red flags, as well as the likelihood of using a known broker.
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  Just because China has mass surveillance and is partially a police state, it still is a chaotic place where you can mostly jay walk with impunity. State organs are poorly organized and integrated, and there is no easy way to verify the implementation of whatever edicts come from the top. The central government also don't care if some local politicians are involved in the prison organ trade for a few extra rambos, as long as they keep it under the radar....
- trhway 8y ago
  >The amount of money that would change hands for organs would raise red flags you probably haven't noticed that China is the country of red flags? http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-10/08/c_134693630.htm http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-10/08/c_134693630.htm (sorry, man, you've just walked into a similar old USSR (also a country of red flags in all the senses) joke)