4 ms·

I don't get it. This article and Reddit post is very misguided. Why are people upset that you're sending data to Microsoft if you enable the settings in Window

by nickjj 8y ago

I don't get it. This article and Reddit post is very misguided. Why are people upset that you're sending data to Microsoft if you enable the settings in Windows that specifically allow Microsoft to collect this data? Maybe I'm biased since I run Windows 10 Pro but you can simply turn off activity history and set your diagnostic settings to basic. Now your non-anonymous data won't be sent to MS (unless they are secretly sending it against your will which is a totally different topic than this article). I don't even have a "privacy dashboard" that this article and the Reddit post speaks of because I log into Windows with a local Windows username, not a Microsoft Live account. If you're concerned about privacy, why would you login to your OS using a Microsoft Live account? This really sounds like people using the default settings without looking into protecting their privacy then saying Windows is evil because they didn't check into the settings of their operating system. In other words: 1. Use a local Windows login, not MS Live 2. Set your diagnostic data to basic 3. Disable activity history Also as a bonus step, if a big content update happens in the future and it introduces features that sounds like it's an invitation to be spied on, double check your settings after patching to make sure they're disabled. It is lame that telemetry exists in the first place, and don't get me wrong, I hate things like being forced to patch / reboot for MS updates but if you volunteer to use Windows, it's the price we have to pay for the time being.

ep103 8y ago
4. Install Latest Windows Updates 5. Find that these settings have been set back to enabled again. 6. Repeat Steps 4 and 5 every Tuesday. 7. Discover MS is still sending data, regardless of your settings. ^^ The above is why.
- nickjj 8y ago
  Those are shady steps taken by MS but I don't experience them with Windows 10 Pro. Maybe it's only isolated to Windows 10 Home? I still double check all of my privacy settings after a major content patch, but so far so good. I keep nearly everything disabled too (basic diagnostics, limited access to my webcam / microphone, Cortana is disabled, no timeline, etc.).
  - tvanantwerp 8y ago
    I deploy Windows 10 Enterprise and I routinely see the goofiest of settings set back to defaults.
    - handzbagz 8y ago
      Enterprise LTSC is what you want, no store, edge and other junk and only security updates.
  - mAEStro-paNDa 8y ago
    I think you're missing the point here. It should not be a constant opt-out routine. If anything it should be opt-in only.
- fx1994 8y ago
  After spending two days to setup my Win10 Procame some glorious update and MS decided to reset settings on their own. That was the first and last time. Next day I downgraded to Win 8.1 Pro. Win 7 Pro memory and disk usage can't be compared to Win8 or Win10, but I'm happy.
  - apta 8y ago
    Do you mean Win7 uses less or more memory and disk compared to Win 10?
kevin_b_er 8y ago
And just what is being sent out at "basic" level?
- nickjj 8y ago
  It's covered on Microsoft's website at https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy/basic-level-windows-diagnostic-events-and-fields-1809 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy/basic-level.... Whether or not their documentation is exhaustive is another issue, but they do at least provide non-ambiguous wording on what's being collected. There's also other links to see what's collected using full instead of basic (check the sidebar).
  - detritus 8y ago
    Unambiguously-worded it may well be, but there's obfuscation through overload, particularly when writ in explicit technical jargon. I consider myself a fairly knowledgable computer user (I've been using computers for 35 years, Windows since 3.1) and the page you've linked there means nothing to me - what hope has the average consumer?
modzu 8y ago
that's a bit disingenuous: the issue here is that even if you turn off activity tracking, activity is still tracked if you have error reporting enabled, a setting that is much less explicit about what it is collecting.
- nickjj 8y ago
  > A setting that is much less explicit about what it is collecting. It's pretty explicit on what it's collecting given the article's context. The linked article's tagline is: > Microsoft baffles Windows 10 users by apparently collecting data about recently opened websites and apps when users have opted against sharing that information. But if you look at the help text next to the radio button in the diagnostics settings it specifically says if you turn it on it will track which websites you visit (among other things). There are other things that get tracked which is less explicit in the wording, but then again, you can set this to "basic" and then it's only anonymous data that gets sent. If someone is serious about protecting their privacy and happens to be stuck using Windows, in my opinion it's their responsibility to at least look at the configuration options of Windows.
  - zwaps 8y ago
    I have it set to basic and it still shows the apps I used in the privacy dashboard website. The basic/full story is bull
    - nickjj 8y ago
      Yeah but having a privacy dashboard means you have a MS Live account linked to your Windows login right? You should disable that and revert to a standard offline Windows user account (check the 3 steps from my original parent comment).
PhasmaFelis 8y ago
Stopping an OS from collecting my data should not require research. If it's anything but a clear, comprehensive choice that you make when you install the OS and stays made forever, something is fucked. > if you volunteer to use Windows, it's the price we have to pay for the time being. I paid to use Windows.
tor_user 8y ago
You may want to have a look at the number of possible events sent to America compared between 'basic' and 'full' (93|112), (410|422). https://www.ghacks.net/2018/11/23/german-federal-office-bsi-publishes-telemetry-analysis/ https://www.ghacks.net/2018/11/23/german-federal-office-bsi-... Office then has approximately 50 times that number again: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/16/microsoft_gdpr/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/16/microsoft_gdpr/ People are upset because there is no way to set this to zero aside from unplugging the machine from the network.
- nickjj 8y ago
  Thanks for the links. You could also try installing O&O ShutUp10. I've been running it since I installed Windows 10. You can download it (it's a free app) at https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10. It nulls out a bunch of telemetry related addresses in your /etc/hosts file, and allows you to configure over a 100 different privacy settings from 1 place.
  - tor_user 8y ago
    Microsoft have a long history of overriding and ignoring hosts configurations to their own addresses so I am skeptical on the utility of this. I think you might be a little too trusting. I do not have time to repeat the efforts outlined by government contractors in the above links with this add on applied, I doubt you do either. Better for me to avoid the OS altogether.
    - nickjj 8y ago
      I don't think it's a matter of being too trusting. I know what I'm getting into by using Windows. I don't sweat it because I know I did everything I could on my end to minimize being spied on without it really affecting me in a negative way. Like you said, I don't have time to match the efforts of full time govt employees. I spent a grand total of 30 minutes researching and tinkering with privacy related settings since I started using Windows 10, and I'm ok with that. I use the tool I linked not only for modifying my hosts file, but it's a 1 stop menu to access all of Microsoft's scattered privacy settings.
pavel_lishin 8y ago
> If you're concerned about privacy, why would you login to your OS using a Microsoft Live account? Why would I expect there to be a difference in my level of privacy between the two? This is frankly a ludicrous thing to expect users to understand. I would certainly not expect this.
- nickjj 8y ago
  > Why would I expect there to be a difference in my level of privacy between the two? This is frankly a ludicrous thing to expect users to understand. I would certainly not expect this. I don't know. Maybe I'm just old and paranoid. As soon as the Windows installation menu requested to link a MS Live account to my Windows login, I thought "wtf, when did MS require having an online account to install Windows?", then I clicked whatever sub-link was there to create an offline user account instead. It seems natural to me that they would try to log additional information about you and then store it "in the cloud" if you used an online account to login to Windows. Not only that but now they have a direct way to convert anonymous data into non-anonymous data through your MS Live details.
  - pavel_lishin 8y ago
    I think of myself as fairly paranoid as well, but age and wisdom and paranoia shouldn't be a requirement for basic privacy.
me_love_animes 8y ago
Basic still sends application inventory and a whole host of other 'person' things activity history is confusing to disable as well, as it' mixed in with their pile of new privacy settings
mixmastamyk 8y ago
Most folks aren’t experts, defaults matter.
developer2 8y ago
If you think your 3 points cover privacy for Windows 10, you are grossly underestimating the extent of the problem, and have no idea what you are talking about. It's not even possible to outline in a comment twice as long as yours how to go about configuring Windows 10 to prefer privacy.
OnlyRepliesToBS 8y ago
> I don't get it.

by nickjj 8y ago

ep103 8y ago

4. Install Latest Windows Updates 5. Find that these settings have been set back to enabled again. 6. Repeat Steps 4 and 5 every Tuesday. 7. Discover MS is still sending data, regardless of your settings. ^^ The above is why.

nickjj 8y ago
Those are shady steps taken by MS but I don't experience them with Windows 10 Pro. Maybe it's only isolated to Windows 10 Home? I still double check all of my privacy settings after a major content patch, but so far so good. I keep nearly everything disabled too (basic diagnostics, limited access to my webcam / microphone, Cortana is disabled, no timeline, etc.).
- tvanantwerp 8y ago
  I deploy Windows 10 Enterprise and I routinely see the goofiest of settings set back to defaults.
  - handzbagz 8y ago
    Enterprise LTSC is what you want, no store, edge and other junk and only security updates.
- mAEStro-paNDa 8y ago
  I think you're missing the point here. It should not be a constant opt-out routine. If anything it should be opt-in only.
fx1994 8y ago
After spending two days to setup my Win10 Procame some glorious update and MS decided to reset settings on their own. That was the first and last time. Next day I downgraded to Win 8.1 Pro. Win 7 Pro memory and disk usage can't be compared to Win8 or Win10, but I'm happy.
- apta 8y ago
  Do you mean Win7 uses less or more memory and disk compared to Win 10?

kevin_b_er 8y ago

And just what is being sent out at "basic" level?

nickjj 8y ago
It's covered on Microsoft's website at https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy/basic-level-windows-diagnostic-events-and-fields-1809 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy/basic-level.... Whether or not their documentation is exhaustive is another issue, but they do at least provide non-ambiguous wording on what's being collected. There's also other links to see what's collected using full instead of basic (check the sidebar).
- detritus 8y ago
  Unambiguously-worded it may well be, but there's obfuscation through overload, particularly when writ in explicit technical jargon. I consider myself a fairly knowledgable computer user (I've been using computers for 35 years, Windows since 3.1) and the page you've linked there means nothing to me - what hope has the average consumer?

modzu 8y ago

that's a bit disingenuous: the issue here is that even if you turn off activity tracking, activity is still tracked if you have error reporting enabled, a setting that is much less explicit about what it is collecting.

nickjj 8y ago
> A setting that is much less explicit about what it is collecting. It's pretty explicit on what it's collecting given the article's context. The linked article's tagline is: > Microsoft baffles Windows 10 users by apparently collecting data about recently opened websites and apps when users have opted against sharing that information. But if you look at the help text next to the radio button in the diagnostics settings it specifically says if you turn it on it will track which websites you visit (among other things). There are other things that get tracked which is less explicit in the wording, but then again, you can set this to "basic" and then it's only anonymous data that gets sent. If someone is serious about protecting their privacy and happens to be stuck using Windows, in my opinion it's their responsibility to at least look at the configuration options of Windows.
- zwaps 8y ago
  I have it set to basic and it still shows the apps I used in the privacy dashboard website. The basic/full story is bull
  - nickjj 8y ago
    Yeah but having a privacy dashboard means you have a MS Live account linked to your Windows login right? You should disable that and revert to a standard offline Windows user account (check the 3 steps from my original parent comment).

PhasmaFelis 8y ago

Stopping an OS from collecting my data should not require research. If it's anything but a clear, comprehensive choice that you make when you install the OS and stays made forever, something is fucked. > if you volunteer to use Windows, it's the price we have to pay for the time being. I paid to use Windows.

tor_user 8y ago

You may want to have a look at the number of possible events sent to America compared between 'basic' and 'full' (93|112), (410|422). https://www.ghacks.net/2018/11/23/german-federal-office-bsi-publishes-telemetry-analysis/ https://www.ghacks.net/2018/11/23/german-federal-office-bsi-... Office then has approximately 50 times that number again: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/16/microsoft_gdpr/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/16/microsoft_gdpr/ People are upset because there is no way to set this to zero aside from unplugging the machine from the network.

nickjj 8y ago
Thanks for the links. You could also try installing O&O ShutUp10. I've been running it since I installed Windows 10. You can download it (it's a free app) at https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10. It nulls out a bunch of telemetry related addresses in your /etc/hosts file, and allows you to configure over a 100 different privacy settings from 1 place.
- tor_user 8y ago
  Microsoft have a long history of overriding and ignoring hosts configurations to their own addresses so I am skeptical on the utility of this. I think you might be a little too trusting. I do not have time to repeat the efforts outlined by government contractors in the above links with this add on applied, I doubt you do either. Better for me to avoid the OS altogether.
  - nickjj 8y ago
    I don't think it's a matter of being too trusting. I know what I'm getting into by using Windows. I don't sweat it because I know I did everything I could on my end to minimize being spied on without it really affecting me in a negative way. Like you said, I don't have time to match the efforts of full time govt employees. I spent a grand total of 30 minutes researching and tinkering with privacy related settings since I started using Windows 10, and I'm ok with that. I use the tool I linked not only for modifying my hosts file, but it's a 1 stop menu to access all of Microsoft's scattered privacy settings.

pavel_lishin 8y ago

> If you're concerned about privacy, why would you login to your OS using a Microsoft Live account? Why would I expect there to be a difference in my level of privacy between the two? This is frankly a ludicrous thing to expect users to understand. I would certainly not expect this.

nickjj 8y ago
> Why would I expect there to be a difference in my level of privacy between the two? This is frankly a ludicrous thing to expect users to understand. I would certainly not expect this. I don't know. Maybe I'm just old and paranoid. As soon as the Windows installation menu requested to link a MS Live account to my Windows login, I thought "wtf, when did MS require having an online account to install Windows?", then I clicked whatever sub-link was there to create an offline user account instead. It seems natural to me that they would try to log additional information about you and then store it "in the cloud" if you used an online account to login to Windows. Not only that but now they have a direct way to convert anonymous data into non-anonymous data through your MS Live details.
- pavel_lishin 8y ago
  I think of myself as fairly paranoid as well, but age and wisdom and paranoia shouldn't be a requirement for basic privacy.

me_love_animes 8y ago

Basic still sends application inventory and a whole host of other 'person' things activity history is confusing to disable as well, as it' mixed in with their pile of new privacy settings

mixmastamyk 8y ago

Most folks aren’t experts, defaults matter.

developer2 8y ago

If you think your 3 points cover privacy for Windows 10, you are grossly underestimating the extent of the problem, and have no idea what you are talking about. It's not even possible to outline in a comment twice as long as yours how to go about configuring Windows 10 to prefer privacy.

OnlyRepliesToBS 8y ago

> I don't get it.