6 ms·

What, exactly, are the "bad things" you want people to go to jail for?

by ikeboy 8y ago

imgabe 8y ago
In this case, manipulating government regulations by submitting false comments. If it's proved that companies fraudulently submitted comments to create the appearance of a grassroots sentiment that did not exist, specifically in order to obtain favorable regulations that would enrich them, don't you think that someone should go to jail for that?
- ikeboy 8y ago
  Are there any credible allegations that Ajit Pai, or any other government employees were behind any false comments? Because I haven't seen any such claims. It seems to me that people are demanding he be put in jail for drafting and voting for a regulation they disagree with.
  - imgabe 8y ago
    I honestly don't know what role, if any, Pai specifically may have had. This is why we have a justice system - to investigate crimes and hold trials to determine if someone committed a crime or not. I agree he should not be put in jail solely on the basis of allegations from the Internet. I don't think anyone is proposing that.
    - ikeboy 8y ago
      The original comment here says "Why is Ajit Pai not in jail?"
      - imgabe 8y ago
        I assume that person believes that, as former general counsel of a major telecom company and then head of the FCC, if there were wrongdoing, Pai would have been aware of it, if not involved. Do you think that's an unreasonable assumption? Even if it happened without his knowledge, he's the leader so it's ultimately his responsibility. In the best case, we could say he was negligent in assessing the validity of the comments that were submitted to his agency. After all, subsequent investigations have been able to determine the comments were fraudulent, so why didn't he? If he knew they were fake and just ignored that fact because they supported what he wanted to do anyway, that's another thing. If he was being compensated in some backdoor way from the industry for ignoring that the comments were fake, that's yet another thing. These are things that should be investigated.
        ikeboy 8y ago
        Yes, it's incredibly unreasonable to go from "fake comments were submitted" to "Pai is responsible".
        imgabe 8y ago
        Ok, see if I were a government official in charge of reviewing comments from the public, I would consider it my responsibility to ensure that those comments were an accurate reflection of public sentiment and had not been manipulated by an interested party to benefit themselves. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about what sorts of responsibilities government officials have.
        ikeboy 8y ago
        It was incredibly obvious to anyone paying attention that they were manipulated. 2.8 million comments were identical and were from a pro-net neutrality site called "Battle for the Net". That's not organic. Do you think he should have blocked comments from there? Or what, specific, actions should he have taken?
        imgabe 8y ago
        > 2.8 million comments were identical and were from a pro-net neutrality site called "Battle for the Net". That's not organic. Lots of advocacy groups offered a form for users to submit comments with a pre-filled comment field in support of net neutrality. I used one myself. The fact that the text is the same does not necessarily imply the comment is fake. There are many other comments where the person who supposedly submitted the comment says that they didn't. That would be a fake comment. > Or what, specific, actions should he have taken? I don't know, how about something besides "not a damn thing"? How about tracking down the source of the fake comments and fining or otherwise holding them accountable if it's within his jurisdiction to do so, or turning them over to the appropriate authorities if not? How about cancelling the comment period due to the rampant fraud, implementing some measures to verify user and re-opening comments to try to get something accurate? How about giving the tiniest shit about the public he's supposed to be serving? Is that too much ask?
ryanlol 8y ago
Holy shit, the comments calling for literal execution of Ajit Pai get upvoted and this gets downvoted. Well done!
anigbrowl 8y ago
Don't ealion here please.
- ikeboy 8y ago
  Per guidelines: >Please don't impute astroturfing or shillage. That degrades discussion and is usually mistaken.

What, exactly, are the "bad things" you want people to go to jail for?

by ikeboy 8y ago

What, exactly, are the "bad things" you want people to go to jail for?

In this case, manipulating government regulations by submitting false comments. If it's proved that companies fraudulently submitted comments to create the appearance of a grassroots sentiment that did not exist, specifically in order to obtain favorable regulations that would enrich them, don't you think that someone should go to jail for that?

ikeboy 8y ago
Are there any credible allegations that Ajit Pai, or any other government employees were behind any false comments? Because I haven't seen any such claims. It seems to me that people are demanding he be put in jail for drafting and voting for a regulation they disagree with.
- imgabe 8y ago
  I honestly don't know what role, if any, Pai specifically may have had. This is why we have a justice system - to investigate crimes and hold trials to determine if someone committed a crime or not. I agree he should not be put in jail solely on the basis of allegations from the Internet. I don't think anyone is proposing that.
  - ikeboy 8y ago
    The original comment here says "Why is Ajit Pai not in jail?"
    - imgabe 8y ago
      I assume that person believes that, as former general counsel of a major telecom company and then head of the FCC, if there were wrongdoing, Pai would have been aware of it, if not involved. Do you think that's an unreasonable assumption? Even if it happened without his knowledge, he's the leader so it's ultimately his responsibility. In the best case, we could say he was negligent in assessing the validity of the comments that were submitted to his agency. After all, subsequent investigations have been able to determine the comments were fraudulent, so why didn't he? If he knew they were fake and just ignored that fact because they supported what he wanted to do anyway, that's another thing. If he was being compensated in some backdoor way from the industry for ignoring that the comments were fake, that's yet another thing. These are things that should be investigated.
      - ikeboy 8y ago
        Yes, it's incredibly unreasonable to go from "fake comments were submitted" to "Pai is responsible".
        imgabe 8y ago
        Ok, see if I were a government official in charge of reviewing comments from the public, I would consider it my responsibility to ensure that those comments were an accurate reflection of public sentiment and had not been manipulated by an interested party to benefit themselves. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about what sorts of responsibilities government officials have.
        ikeboy 8y ago
        It was incredibly obvious to anyone paying attention that they were manipulated. 2.8 million comments were identical and were from a pro-net neutrality site called "Battle for the Net". That's not organic. Do you think he should have blocked comments from there? Or what, specific, actions should he have taken?
        imgabe 8y ago
        > 2.8 million comments were identical and were from a pro-net neutrality site called "Battle for the Net". That's not organic. Lots of advocacy groups offered a form for users to submit comments with a pre-filled comment field in support of net neutrality. I used one myself. The fact that the text is the same does not necessarily imply the comment is fake. There are many other comments where the person who supposedly submitted the comment says that they didn't. That would be a fake comment. > Or what, specific, actions should he have taken? I don't know, how about something besides "not a damn thing"? How about tracking down the source of the fake comments and fining or otherwise holding them accountable if it's within his jurisdiction to do so, or turning them over to the appropriate authorities if not? How about cancelling the comment period due to the rampant fraud, implementing some measures to verify user and re-opening comments to try to get something accurate? How about giving the tiniest shit about the public he's supposed to be serving? Is that too much ask?

ryanlol 8y ago

Holy shit, the comments calling for literal execution of Ajit Pai get upvoted and this gets downvoted. Well done!

anigbrowl 8y ago

Don't ealion here please.

ikeboy 8y ago
Per guidelines: >Please don't impute astroturfing or shillage. That degrades discussion and is usually mistaken.