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first person to free climb the nose route of el capitan was a woman. go look it up, will be fun and you won't have to get angry about people celebrating women

first person to free climb the nose route of el capitan was a woman. go look it up, will be fun and you won't have to get angry about people celebrating women too enthusiastically as it is just true.

PavlovsCat 8y ago
Being so enthusiastic as to exagerrate ends up taking away from it. If you "have to" assume anyone who notices that "has to get angry about people celebrating women too enthusiastically" you're just pre-emptively calling a modicum of attention and seriousness misogyny. Allow for other possiblities, like confidence in one's own not being a misogynist, that can give a person the freedom to criticize such overdoing which ends up taking away.
pbhjpbhj 8y ago
What's the pertinence of the sex of the climber though. It's not celebrating Hill that is the problem. In 90s USA I doubt she had to make more effort than she would have if she were a man, isn't it 'just' "an incredible achievement" rather than "an incredible achievement, for a woman"? I'm open to being wrong, for example if it were "new deadlift record holder has XX chromosomes" then the sex is notable because males tend to acquiring more muscle mass. In climbing men and women seem well matched? At a different scale it seems to me like the condescension of applauding a woman for parking her own car, like "wow you can park a car and have breasts, unthinkable" when in fact sex and parking are largely (if not entirely) orthogonal.
- gameswithgo 8y ago
  I guess I feel you like you are not arguing in good faith if you can't see why a woman being the first to achieve a physically demanding task at world class level is not interesting. Even if we were to put reality aside and assuming that men and women have equal physical talents on average it would still be interesting if only because it is rare for such things to happen and I can't believe I am bothering to explain this.
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    My position is that you can't maintain neutrality on the sex of people who make achievements if you keep highlighting it. It's a phenomenal achievement, period. I really, genuinely, can't see why Hill's sex, say, is important here. Could you spell it out for me? I've no idea what nationality she is, if she's say Inuit, would that be notable relative to her achievement?

first person to free climb the nose route of el capitan was a woman. go look it up, will be fun and you won't have to get angry about people celebrating women too enthusiastically as it is just true.

PavlovsCat 8y ago

Being so enthusiastic as to exagerrate ends up taking away from it. If you "have to" assume anyone who notices that "has to get angry about people celebrating women too enthusiastically" you're just pre-emptively calling a modicum of attention and seriousness misogyny. Allow for other possiblities, like confidence in one's own not being a misogynist, that can give a person the freedom to criticize such overdoing which ends up taking away.

pbhjpbhj 8y ago

What's the pertinence of the sex of the climber though. It's not celebrating Hill that is the problem. In 90s USA I doubt she had to make more effort than she would have if she were a man, isn't it 'just' "an incredible achievement" rather than "an incredible achievement, for a woman"? I'm open to being wrong, for example if it were "new deadlift record holder has XX chromosomes" then the sex is notable because males tend to acquiring more muscle mass. In climbing men and women seem well matched? At a different scale it seems to me like the condescension of applauding a woman for parking her own car, like "wow you can park a car and have breasts, unthinkable" when in fact sex and parking are largely (if not entirely) orthogonal.

gameswithgo 8y ago
I guess I feel you like you are not arguing in good faith if you can't see why a woman being the first to achieve a physically demanding task at world class level is not interesting. Even if we were to put reality aside and assuming that men and women have equal physical talents on average it would still be interesting if only because it is rare for such things to happen and I can't believe I am bothering to explain this.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  My position is that you can't maintain neutrality on the sex of people who make achievements if you keep highlighting it. It's a phenomenal achievement, period. I really, genuinely, can't see why Hill's sex, say, is important here. Could you spell it out for me? I've no idea what nationality she is, if she's say Inuit, would that be notable relative to her achievement?