11 ms·

Insanely it is bipartisan, I think only the greens voted against it.

by aplummer 8y ago

danieltillett 8y ago
I know :( I love Australia, but I despair at the politicians we elect.
- jay_kyburz 8y ago
  Vote Green and we might see some changes.
  - dwd 8y ago
    Problem is the Greens are unelectable in the lower house because they dilute their message across too many fringe issues that the majority of the public don't care enough about. If they focussed on climate change, renewables, health and education (issues that affect the majority) they would have a better chance of picking up some lower house seats. Otherwise we need a modern day Don Chipp to splinter a group off of either the LNP or ALP and form a new party that can hold key votes in both houses.
    - jay_kyburz 8y ago
      Perhaps, but voting Green next year will send a clear message that we are looking for change.
      - lurker72 8y ago
        What sort of change? I agree with the parent that they spread themselves across too many fringe issues. I.e I may vote the greens to help save the environment, but that doesn't mean I care about kids with gender dysphoria.
        icebraining 8y ago
        Then vote Green and send letters to the other parties telling them why you did so.
        lurker72 8y ago
        That doesn't fully work, because I may care about environment but I may strongly disagree with everything else on their agenda. The main issue with the greens is that they don't stand for one thing anymore. They try and stand for everything. Plus, I don't think most normal people have time to be sending letters to political parties.
        solarkraft 8y ago
        > They try and stand for everything Unlike other parties? Voting is about which party you agree with most. If you care about climate change and Australia not bombing its economy enough, you should probably vote green.
        dwd 8y ago
        I'm personally thinking it's time to join the party and try and influence change but that's a whole other level of commitment beyond writing letters.
        dwd 8y ago
        Malcolm Fraser a few years before he passed away handed in his Liberal life membership in protest. It made news for a day, pissed off a lot of people and that was it. Interestingly, I just discovered he spent his final years putting together the platform for a new party. The crikey page it was released on is behind a paywall but this might be it: https://lalegale.wordpress.com/2015/03/28/renew-australia-founding-members-statement-of-values-purpose-draft/ https://lalegale.wordpress.com/2015/03/28/renew-australia-fo...
        justinclift 8y ago
        The "Reason" party (used to be called the "Sex Party" (heh)) seem pretty sensible these days: https://reasonvic.org.au/policy/
ux-app 8y ago
it's bipartisan in the interests of pragmatism. Labor were forced to collude because idiot Scomo and his buddies decided to go for the cheap "keep Aussies safe over Christmas" banter. Labor capitulated with the proviso that the bill be reexamined next year. Let's reserve judgement until then.
- aplummer 8y ago
  I disagree because 1) Bill Shorten goaded the PM to stay late at parliament and pass the bill “to protect Australians” with no amendments on a vague promise. 2) those with courage resign and sit on the cross bench (as we have seen recently).
  - ux-app 8y ago
    > those with courage resign and sit on the cross bench you expect Shorten to go to the cross bench? get real.
    - aplummer 8y ago
      The point I was making is nobody is forced to vote for anything, which is true. Anyone in the ALP could have voted against the bill and moved to the cross bench. The “get real” response is where the courage comes into play.
      - ux-app 8y ago
        This is, at best, a very fringe issue for the voting public. That's sad, and I'm disappointed that it's turned out this way, but seriously, it is the only sane position for Labor to take right now. You can't affect much change from the cross bench and Labor are poised to win in a landslide. Politically it makes no sense to make this an issue. You know it and I know it. Other than political suicide over an issue that 99.99% of Aussies couldn't formulate a coherent argument around, what could Labor have done? And be realistic in your rebuttal. Dying on their sword only to potentially lose the coming election is idiotic, and irrational, regardless of what we, the tech literate think about the issue.

Insanely it is bipartisan, I think only the greens voted against it.

danieltillett 8y ago

I know :( I love Australia, but I despair at the politicians we elect.

jay_kyburz 8y ago
Vote Green and we might see some changes.
- dwd 8y ago
  Problem is the Greens are unelectable in the lower house because they dilute their message across too many fringe issues that the majority of the public don't care enough about. If they focussed on climate change, renewables, health and education (issues that affect the majority) they would have a better chance of picking up some lower house seats. Otherwise we need a modern day Don Chipp to splinter a group off of either the LNP or ALP and form a new party that can hold key votes in both houses.
  - jay_kyburz 8y ago
    Perhaps, but voting Green next year will send a clear message that we are looking for change.
    - lurker72 8y ago
      What sort of change? I agree with the parent that they spread themselves across too many fringe issues. I.e I may vote the greens to help save the environment, but that doesn't mean I care about kids with gender dysphoria.
      - icebraining 8y ago
        Then vote Green and send letters to the other parties telling them why you did so.
        lurker72 8y ago
        That doesn't fully work, because I may care about environment but I may strongly disagree with everything else on their agenda. The main issue with the greens is that they don't stand for one thing anymore. They try and stand for everything. Plus, I don't think most normal people have time to be sending letters to political parties.
        solarkraft 8y ago
        > They try and stand for everything Unlike other parties? Voting is about which party you agree with most. If you care about climate change and Australia not bombing its economy enough, you should probably vote green.
        dwd 8y ago
        I'm personally thinking it's time to join the party and try and influence change but that's a whole other level of commitment beyond writing letters.
        dwd 8y ago
        Malcolm Fraser a few years before he passed away handed in his Liberal life membership in protest. It made news for a day, pissed off a lot of people and that was it. Interestingly, I just discovered he spent his final years putting together the platform for a new party. The crikey page it was released on is behind a paywall but this might be it: https://lalegale.wordpress.com/2015/03/28/renew-australia-founding-members-statement-of-values-purpose-draft/ https://lalegale.wordpress.com/2015/03/28/renew-australia-fo...
      - justinclift 8y ago
        The "Reason" party (used to be called the "Sex Party" (heh)) seem pretty sensible these days: https://reasonvic.org.au/policy/

ux-app 8y ago

it's bipartisan in the interests of pragmatism. Labor were forced to collude because idiot Scomo and his buddies decided to go for the cheap "keep Aussies safe over Christmas" banter. Labor capitulated with the proviso that the bill be reexamined next year. Let's reserve judgement until then.

aplummer 8y ago
I disagree because 1) Bill Shorten goaded the PM to stay late at parliament and pass the bill “to protect Australians” with no amendments on a vague promise. 2) those with courage resign and sit on the cross bench (as we have seen recently).
- ux-app 8y ago
  > those with courage resign and sit on the cross bench you expect Shorten to go to the cross bench? get real.
  - aplummer 8y ago
    The point I was making is nobody is forced to vote for anything, which is true. Anyone in the ALP could have voted against the bill and moved to the cross bench. The “get real” response is where the courage comes into play.
    - ux-app 8y ago
      This is, at best, a very fringe issue for the voting public. That's sad, and I'm disappointed that it's turned out this way, but seriously, it is the only sane position for Labor to take right now. You can't affect much change from the cross bench and Labor are poised to win in a landslide. Politically it makes no sense to make this an issue. You know it and I know it. Other than political suicide over an issue that 99.99% of Aussies couldn't formulate a coherent argument around, what could Labor have done? And be realistic in your rebuttal. Dying on their sword only to potentially lose the coming election is idiotic, and irrational, regardless of what we, the tech literate think about the issue.