10 ms·

I am interested by society's desire to blame an entire generation's worth of young people for how they turned out. Millennials did not ruin the economy in 2008

by jld 8y ago

I am interested by society's desire to blame an entire generation's worth of young people for how they turned out. Millennials did not ruin the economy in 2008, make a college education cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, or impose 40 years of wage stagnation in this country. These kids and young adults are just a product of the environment that their parents and grandparents built for them. We should instead talk more about what Gen Xers and Baby Boomers did for the fortunes of Millennials rather than how insufferable Millennials are.

ataturk 8y ago
Xer here, I have never been in charge of jack shit. Boomers 100% in charge of everything, witness all the 70+ year old mayors, Senators, CEOs, all of them should fucking retire. Assholes all. ETA: Nobody twisted Millenials' arms to take on debt, though. My niece went to freaking Vassar and is now a florist. Waste of money. Same holds true everywhere I look--a nephew is a college Freshman this year. I told him to just go become and electrician. He's going to take a course that is a "Survey of European Soccer" which is just an excuse to go abroad and drink for a semester. Pretty much a total waste except for the cultural enrichment, and you don't need a whole semester to obtain that.
ModernMech 8y ago
Yeah, I see boomers like my uncles talking about how millenials are the "participation trophy" generation, without any awareness that it was their generation handing out the participation trophies to millenials.
- Reedx 8y ago
  Right. Every generation blames the next (a tale as old as time), while not examining their role in it. Which would be much more productive. See Jonathan Haidt's book "The Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas Are Setting Up a Generation for Failure" for an insightful examination.
- smhenderson 8y ago
  As the son of boomers and parent of two millennials my observation is that it was my generation handing out those trophies (not that I agree with the practice, quite the contrary). I didn't get participation trophies when I was a kid and I was a perfect candidate because I was awkward and uncoordinated and never won a thing for coming in first place (in sports anyway). But I saw my kids get them here and there...
  - cco 8y ago
    >As the son of boomers and parent of two millennials I guess this is somewhat normal but it's so weird for me to hear, millennials are 81-96 so it's entirely possible for you, a Gen X (65-80), to have a millennial child but it seems so off to me. I think because the millennial date range is too large, it encompasses people who grew up without computers in the home or cellphones, e.g. 81-90ish, but also people who are "digital natives", 90-ish to 96. My friend group is 37 through 24 and the difference between those two ages is striking enough so as to be completely different.
    - wink 8y ago
      I don't like the term "digital native" at all, but I have to disagree with your age ranges. We mid-to-late 80s children might have been a little older when computers were introduced, but it was absolutely a part of growing up - first computers, then mobile phones.
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > We mid-to-late 80s children might have been a little older when computers were introduced, but it was absolutely a part of growing up Not really surprised, since (as an early 1970s kid) most of my circle at school had computers by the time “mid-to-late 80s children” were being born.
      - cco 8y ago
        I put that term in quotes because I have similar misgivings but I haven't found another term that really captures what I'm talking about. >it was absolutely a part of growing up - first computers, then mobile phones. You're correct but missing an important difference, it was a _part_ of our coming of age but for people who are on the younger side of millennials it wasn't a "part" of their world, they were literally soaked in it from birth. There is difference between, "I got my first computer at home when I was 10 and then I remember a few years later when we got dial-up and then when I was 15 I got a flip phone." and, "The internet was a given in my home, computers existed everywhere, and I got a phone at 10."
ip26 8y ago
Allow me to introduce to you a concept known as "scapegoating"...
mkirklions 8y ago
>make a college education cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, or impose 40 years of wage stagnation in this country. Lets see if this exaggeration is upvoted or downvoted by HN whales. Its a very sympathetic argument, but its not true. Curious how our overlords respond. EDIT: Since I cant post, I'll respond here. Someone posted links saying- > the College Board reports that a moderate college budget for an in-state public college for the 2017–2018 academic year averaged $25,290. A moderate budget at a private college averaged $50,900. > college education cost hundreds of thousands of dollars According to your source, this is 4x cheaper than the (200k+ that OP claimed) And the wages have gone up, with inflation(from your link). Not sure if you should blame the government for this, but I don't see anyone in this thread complaining about Fiat currency policy.
- kadendogthing 8y ago
  It is true by all available quantifiable metrics. EDIT: From your own source: >academic year That is the budget for one, 1, uno, academic year. There are typically 4 academic years required for the majority of degrees.
- FiveSquared 8y ago
  https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/15/heres-how-much-the-average-student-loan-borrower-owes-when-they-graduate.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/15/heres-how-much-the-average-s... http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-...
- 0d311 8y ago
  Sorry, but this is just... True? https://www.collegedata.com/cs/content/content_payarticle_tmpl.jhtml?articleId=10064 https://www.collegedata.com/cs/content/content_payarticle_tm... http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-...
- aoeusnth1 8y ago
  I think you're forgetting to multiply by 4. $50900 * 4 = $203,600.
TheBeardKing 8y ago
I blame millenial journalists for writing click-baity articles blaming millenials for market shifts experienced by millenials and created by millenials. I don't read stupid generation-shaming crap from serious journalists in legitimate news outlets.
- aoeusnth1 8y ago
  Er, actually that's a function of the market for such articles, I assume mainly driven by older folks looking for reasons to blame millennials for anything and everything. I don't think young journalists have control over what people prefer to click on, and they definitely like to click on that.
andrewmcwatters 8y ago
I mean, that's all kind of bullshit, too. In the same sort of way that if you don't drive a Prius or aren't a vegan you contribute to climate change. Gen X'ers and Baby Boomers didn't really do shit except live life in the time they did like Millennials and Gen Z'ers do now; it was the people in power who had impact. There's too much pointing fingers in the wrong direction when it comes to these discussions. It wasn't my father who fucked my future over, though people elected during his time had significant impact on educational and housing policies today. You could say he voted for these things, but that's still painting an entire generation in the wrong light, sometimes you don't have a choice. Imagine in the future blaming Millennials and Gen Z'ers for the problems in 2040 instead of blaming people like Trump and Macron. Incredible.
- Loughla 8y ago
  What? Who voted those people into power? Who decided what to buy, thereby improving the market share of one company over another? Who decided that mass-produced, disposable goods were the way to go with no thought about the long-term impact? Who secured their own nest-egg and then actively worked to drive down wages and costs to improve investment returns? Saying the entire generation except those in power didn't do shit but live life is sort of downplaying the impact of choices every single person made. Choices made with seemingly no thought to their longer-term implications for the world. Also, pulling 'those in power' out of the context of their generation doesn't really make sense to me. That statement appears to want to remove responsibility from literally every person who was alive, except maybe governmental leaders and the heads of the top 100 companies or however many. I would argue that you are both correct and incorrect. They did live life in their time, exactly how we are living now - just living life day to day within the context of their times. But that doesn't remove responsibility for their decisions. It appears to me that boomers especially lived their lives with less emphasis on what the future may hold and less focus on the long-term implications of everyday people's decisions. They appeared to live without understanding that they really are a small part of what we would call society's choices, but a part nonetheless. God I hope all that makes sense. I feel like maybe it rambled a little.
  - sulam 8y ago
treespace8 8y ago
Gen X here. We are trying. Voting for progressive policies and people to grow the middle class. But we are a small voting block.

by jld 8y ago

ataturk 8y ago

Xer here, I have never been in charge of jack shit. Boomers 100% in charge of everything, witness all the 70+ year old mayors, Senators, CEOs, all of them should fucking retire. Assholes all. ETA: Nobody twisted Millenials' arms to take on debt, though. My niece went to freaking Vassar and is now a florist. Waste of money. Same holds true everywhere I look--a nephew is a college Freshman this year. I told him to just go become and electrician. He's going to take a course that is a "Survey of European Soccer" which is just an excuse to go abroad and drink for a semester. Pretty much a total waste except for the cultural enrichment, and you don't need a whole semester to obtain that.

ModernMech 8y ago

Yeah, I see boomers like my uncles talking about how millenials are the "participation trophy" generation, without any awareness that it was their generation handing out the participation trophies to millenials.

Reedx 8y ago
Right. Every generation blames the next (a tale as old as time), while not examining their role in it. Which would be much more productive. See Jonathan Haidt's book "The Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas Are Setting Up a Generation for Failure" for an insightful examination.
smhenderson 8y ago
As the son of boomers and parent of two millennials my observation is that it was my generation handing out those trophies (not that I agree with the practice, quite the contrary). I didn't get participation trophies when I was a kid and I was a perfect candidate because I was awkward and uncoordinated and never won a thing for coming in first place (in sports anyway). But I saw my kids get them here and there...
- cco 8y ago
  >As the son of boomers and parent of two millennials I guess this is somewhat normal but it's so weird for me to hear, millennials are 81-96 so it's entirely possible for you, a Gen X (65-80), to have a millennial child but it seems so off to me. I think because the millennial date range is too large, it encompasses people who grew up without computers in the home or cellphones, e.g. 81-90ish, but also people who are "digital natives", 90-ish to 96. My friend group is 37 through 24 and the difference between those two ages is striking enough so as to be completely different.
  - wink 8y ago
    I don't like the term "digital native" at all, but I have to disagree with your age ranges. We mid-to-late 80s children might have been a little older when computers were introduced, but it was absolutely a part of growing up - first computers, then mobile phones.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > We mid-to-late 80s children might have been a little older when computers were introduced, but it was absolutely a part of growing up Not really surprised, since (as an early 1970s kid) most of my circle at school had computers by the time “mid-to-late 80s children” were being born.
    - cco 8y ago
      I put that term in quotes because I have similar misgivings but I haven't found another term that really captures what I'm talking about. >it was absolutely a part of growing up - first computers, then mobile phones. You're correct but missing an important difference, it was a _part_ of our coming of age but for people who are on the younger side of millennials it wasn't a "part" of their world, they were literally soaked in it from birth. There is difference between, "I got my first computer at home when I was 10 and then I remember a few years later when we got dial-up and then when I was 15 I got a flip phone." and, "The internet was a given in my home, computers existed everywhere, and I got a phone at 10."

ip26 8y ago

Allow me to introduce to you a concept known as "scapegoating"...

mkirklions 8y ago

>make a college education cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, or impose 40 years of wage stagnation in this country. Lets see if this exaggeration is upvoted or downvoted by HN whales. Its a very sympathetic argument, but its not true. Curious how our overlords respond. EDIT: Since I cant post, I'll respond here. Someone posted links saying- > the College Board reports that a moderate college budget for an in-state public college for the 2017–2018 academic year averaged $25,290. A moderate budget at a private college averaged $50,900. > college education cost hundreds of thousands of dollars According to your source, this is 4x cheaper than the (200k+ that OP claimed) And the wages have gone up, with inflation(from your link). Not sure if you should blame the government for this, but I don't see anyone in this thread complaining about Fiat currency policy.

kadendogthing 8y ago
It is true by all available quantifiable metrics. EDIT: From your own source: >academic year That is the budget for one, 1, uno, academic year. There are typically 4 academic years required for the majority of degrees.
FiveSquared 8y ago
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/15/heres-how-much-the-average-student-loan-borrower-owes-when-they-graduate.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/15/heres-how-much-the-average-s... http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-...
0d311 8y ago
Sorry, but this is just... True? https://www.collegedata.com/cs/content/content_payarticle_tmpl.jhtml?articleId=10064 https://www.collegedata.com/cs/content/content_payarticle_tm... http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-...
aoeusnth1 8y ago
I think you're forgetting to multiply by 4. $50900 * 4 = $203,600.

TheBeardKing 8y ago

I blame millenial journalists for writing click-baity articles blaming millenials for market shifts experienced by millenials and created by millenials. I don't read stupid generation-shaming crap from serious journalists in legitimate news outlets.

aoeusnth1 8y ago
Er, actually that's a function of the market for such articles, I assume mainly driven by older folks looking for reasons to blame millennials for anything and everything. I don't think young journalists have control over what people prefer to click on, and they definitely like to click on that.

andrewmcwatters 8y ago

I mean, that's all kind of bullshit, too. In the same sort of way that if you don't drive a Prius or aren't a vegan you contribute to climate change. Gen X'ers and Baby Boomers didn't really do shit except live life in the time they did like Millennials and Gen Z'ers do now; it was the people in power who had impact. There's too much pointing fingers in the wrong direction when it comes to these discussions. It wasn't my father who fucked my future over, though people elected during his time had significant impact on educational and housing policies today. You could say he voted for these things, but that's still painting an entire generation in the wrong light, sometimes you don't have a choice. Imagine in the future blaming Millennials and Gen Z'ers for the problems in 2040 instead of blaming people like Trump and Macron. Incredible.

Loughla 8y ago
What? Who voted those people into power? Who decided what to buy, thereby improving the market share of one company over another? Who decided that mass-produced, disposable goods were the way to go with no thought about the long-term impact? Who secured their own nest-egg and then actively worked to drive down wages and costs to improve investment returns? Saying the entire generation except those in power didn't do shit but live life is sort of downplaying the impact of choices every single person made. Choices made with seemingly no thought to their longer-term implications for the world. Also, pulling 'those in power' out of the context of their generation doesn't really make sense to me. That statement appears to want to remove responsibility from literally every person who was alive, except maybe governmental leaders and the heads of the top 100 companies or however many. I would argue that you are both correct and incorrect. They did live life in their time, exactly how we are living now - just living life day to day within the context of their times. But that doesn't remove responsibility for their decisions. It appears to me that boomers especially lived their lives with less emphasis on what the future may hold and less focus on the long-term implications of everyday people's decisions. They appeared to live without understanding that they really are a small part of what we would call society's choices, but a part nonetheless. God I hope all that makes sense. I feel like maybe it rambled a little.
- sulam 8y ago

treespace8 8y ago

Gen X here. We are trying. Voting for progressive policies and people to grow the middle class. But we are a small voting block.