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I'm so glad we passed those corporate tax cuts that created all those jobs and helped provide for all those raises everyone got....
by padseeker 8y ago
I'm so glad we passed those corporate tax cuts that created all those jobs and helped provide for all those raises everyone got....
- JustSomeNobody 8y agoThere should be a box on our tax forms for "Adopt a Shareholder" so at the very least we can name the person we want to get our money. Talk about entitlements. These companies seem to think they're entitled to our money.
- qaq 8y agoHere you go those greedy shareholders: Vanguard Group, Inc. 7.26% Blackrock Inc. 6.54% State Street Corporation 3.83% Capital Research Global Investors 2.92% Wellington Management Company, LLP 2.80% oh wait thats actually your retirement money
- JustSomeNobody 8y agoOh, so they're not greedy because they hold our retirement funds? I guess that makes it all OK then? You keep voting for those corporate tax cuts. I won't.
- qaq 8y agoWho are "They" Vanguard is owned by people holding money in Vanguard funds for example so in case you have your retirement $ in Vanguard "They" is literally you.
- dd36 8y agoThat's a red herring. We could cut taxes to zero and your investments may go up a little temporarily but it would be catastrophic in medium-to-long term as the dollar collapses and Americans go through a depression and likely a war.
- qaq 8y agoWould you outline how making corp tax to 0 "would be catastrophic in medium-to-long term as the dollar collapses and Americans go through a depression and likely a war"?
- dd36 8y agoDebt default.
- qaq 8y agoHow do you envision that? So companies will stop hoarding money offshore and that will have 0 positive economic effect?
- dd36 8y agoAccess to capital is not a current issue. There is a virtually unlimited amount of capital available in the US to anyone offering it a high return. The issue is the lack of opportunities for high returns.
- twblalock 8y agoCorporate taxes are about 11% of total Federal revenue. If they were cut to zero, that would be bad, but it would not cause the collapse of the dollar or a war.
- lukewrites 8y agoIf you're invested in VTSMX, represents 1% or less of your US equity holdings. This disproportionately helps the executives & major investors in Verizon, does little or nothing for the IRA/401k of working schlubs like me, and puts 10,000+ families into a state of economic insecurity.
- nafizh 8y agoI don't know how many times Republicans have to try these to understand it doesn't work.
- jorblumesea 8y agoThey understand completely. These companies pay for their reelection and employ them once they leave politics.
- padseeker 8y agoThey understand good god damn well they don't work. This is exactly the plan. Sell people on the idea it'll help them, then these companies take the money and run. What amazes me is some working people will continue to vote this way even though it keeps failing. I guarantee there will be more tax cuts sold in the very near future, and the same people will buy into it. Some people never learn.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- josho 8y ago> Some people never learn It's hard to learn when your sole source of news is Fox News. It's not even that Fox News is an outlier, the fault is ad supported news media. What do you think will happen when a politician comes along that threatens the million dollar ad accounts from finance and health industries through policies that reduce those institutions influence? Chomsky was right (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent).
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- CiPHPerCoder 8y agoCut revenue, blame expenses. Eventually you end up with an anemic government that overspends on things that don't work and ignores all the social programs that the government put in place to prevent history from repeating.
- AlexTWithBeard 8y agoDid you expect zero layoffs across the United States for the next ten years after the tax cuts?
- dd36 8y agoTax cuts aren't even a year old and were sold on the premise of job growth.
- jayess 8y agoAre you claiming that there hasn't been any job growth since January 1?
- dd36 8y agoNot more than pre-tax cut trend. The critique was always that companies aren't hurting for cash so a tax cut is pointless and will only balloon the deficit. That's exactly what has happened. We gained nothing but a shorter debt bomb fuse.
- bduerst 8y agoOutside of the normal trend, yeah. There isn't much growth difference than pre-tax treatment. The national deficit is the highest it's been since the recession though, and growing faster than before. At least during the recession when our tax money was given to corporations, there were strings attached. Now it's all stock buybacks to fight the shrinking market, brought on by the stupid trade war.
- tootahe45 8y agoWhich is being achieved if you look at the overall numbers. One company doesn't represent total job growth. If GM fails and Tesla takes its place will you blame that on Trump too?
- dd36 8y agoTwo companies in two weeks have announced 10,000+ layoffs. Rumor is Ford is about to as well.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- jayess 8y agoFull-time employment is up by 2.7 million since the tax cuts went into effect. Michigan's unemployment is the lowest it's been since records have been kept: https://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/21325 https://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/21325
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- toomuchtodo 8y agoCorrelation does not imply causation. Can you provide evidence tax cuts stoked existing economic momentum? Or is the economy on fire despite these tax cuts? Stock buybacks [1] done with these tax cuts, enriching shareholders, does little to stoke economic demand or benefit the middle class [2]. More likely, cheap, loose credit is what has allowed the music to carry on. [1] https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/10/investing/stock-buybacks-record-tax-cuts/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/10/investing/stock-buybacks-re... (Tax cut triggers $437 billion explosion of stock buybacks) [2] https://www.npr.org/2017/12/19/571754894/charts-see-how-much-of-gop-tax-cuts-will-go-to-the-middle-class https://www.npr.org/2017/12/19/571754894/charts-see-how-much... (CHARTS: See How Much Of GOP Tax Cuts Will Go To The Middle Class)
- jayess 8y agoWhy aren't you asking this of all the comments in this parent? People seem to be blaming Verizon cutting 10,000 jobs on the tax cuts. Or claiming that jobs weren't created. Or that somehow the tax cuts were an economic negative. None of those things can be attributed to causation.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- padseeker 8y agoPeople seem to be blaming Verizon cutting 10,000 jobs on the tax cuts At no point was that ever insinuated. The simple idea is that the tax cuts were sold as a way to give companies financial resources to boost salaries and hire new people. Well they got their tax cuts, why are they doing the opposite of what the tax cuts were supposed to do? Maybe it's because the tax cuts were never going to boost salaries and increase hiring. You have to be pretty deluded to come to the conclusion my comment was blaming the layoffs on the tax cuts.
- TangoTrotFox 8y agoThe article's headline and its content paint different pictures, with the title really just being clickbait. They're not laying off individuals but paying them to leave including upwards of a year of salary, a bonus, and maintaining benefits. And it was voluntary -- not 'pink slipping.' I don't really think you can attribute this to the tax breaks, but if you can - then this would be an immense positive. Employee turnover is already very high pretty much everywhere now a days. Getting paid a year of salary, and more, to agree to leave? That's something I think the vast majority of workers would be absolutely thrilled to be offered. It's a potentially life changing offer giving somebody a chance to carry out any entrepreneurial fantasy they have, to get a fat head start on the joy of compound interest, or simply spending a year with bikinis, booze, and beaches if that's your thing.
- jhfdbkofdcho 8y agoIt’s either take the money now, or if they don’t get enough takers be laid off without as much if any incentive later on.
- mbreese 8y agoIf they don’t get enough employees to voluntarily leave, you can be sure that there will be forced layoffs (with probably worse terms). Imagine you’re a 50 year old employee with a kid in college. Would you be thrilled to accept a year of salary with limited job prospects? What jobs do you think will be the first to be cut? Don’t try to sugar coat it - when there are lay-offs (voluntarily or not), it’s rarely a positive for the majority of affected employees. And this in no way should be considered a positive effect of the corporate tax cuts.
- TangoTrotFox 8y agoHere's a more reasonable question. If you ask 10,000 random workers from various tech companies if they'd be willing to leave in exchange for more than a year of salary, + benefits, + a bonus. What percent would say yes? We can only imagine, but it's going to be huge. If you don't want to leave, don't apply. And on that note - yeah people did have to apply, and some were rejected.
- briandear 8y agoHow does lowering costs to businesses result in layoffs? The tax cut has nothing to do with these layoffs. Were there not layoffs during the Obama administration? If a company just announced they are hiring a bunch of people, does the tax credit get credit for that? Currently, the US has very low unemployment. Also, in December 2017, wage growth was at 2.9%, while now it has increased to 3.7%. So almost a full percentage point in less than a year. Is that because of the tax cut? It would be very difficult to say for sure, but one thing is clear from the data, the tax cut didn’t reduce wage growth.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- ahallock 8y agoSounds like empty political rhetoric and speculation. FTA: Verizon is "cutting costs as it ramps up investment in its next generation 5G network" Maybe that will mean future jobs in other areas. Maybe the people they're buying equipment from/contracting to will add more jobs. The bottom line is how do you really know?
- ilikehurdles 8y agoMaybe they’ve discovered a unicorn. Maybe they have a fusion powered internet. How do you really know? Bottom line is we know labor is getting screwed. The rest is marketing.
- downandout 8y agoSounds like empty political rhetoric and speculation. That's exactly what it is...which is why it is currently the top comment. HN never disappoints.
- root_axis 8y agoPolitically, I agree with you, but your comment is akin to when republicans blast global warming when a snow storm blows in. Pointing to a single data point as a summary of something super complex is always silly.
- jackkinsella 8y agoIt's comments like this that keep me coming back to Hacker News. I sometimes find myself in political discussions with people and feel that they aren't playing fair for whatever reason (fair in the sense of good natured truth-seeking). Your counter-example is the perfect, non-snarky retort.
- polskibus 8y agoArgumentum ad populum or ad numerum, it's always good to keep an eye for them!
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y agoAre Republics a homogenous whole, none of whom take climate change seriously?
- jayess 8y agoToday, everyone is in a group, and if that group is not your group, the other group is bad.
- root_axis 8y agoToday? Did you mean literally the entire history of humanity?
- root_axis 8y agoOf course not, but invoking cold weather as a way of casting doubt on global warming is not a popular rhetorical tactic except among American conservatives (republicans).
- lern_too_spel 8y agoCutting taxes and increasing government spending trivially increases employment and wages. These people voluntarily accepted a buyout to get a better paying job elsewhere.