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Why is it that when the right wants to reduce taxes, which is a popular move, they are called "populists", but when the left wants to increase social spending,

by 21 8y ago

Why is it that when the right wants to reduce taxes, which is a popular move, they are called "populists", but when the left wants to increase social spending, which is also a popular move, they are not? Wikipedia definition: > Populism is a range of political approaches that deliberately appeal to "the people," often juxtaposing this group against a so-called "elite." Kind of fits the definition, this article itself says it wants to go after the elite: big tech companies and rich people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism Downvoters: hit a nerve, eh?

Udik 8y ago
Absolutely, for example Italy's "Five Stars" party, which is currently the majority party in the most populist government Italy has ever had, won the elections with a strong "anti-elites" platform and a (completely unrealistic) plan for redistributing money to a large part of the population.
- orwin 8y ago
  But the Five Star was called a populist party by most of the european media (and italian ones: see Il Tempo, L’Unione Sarda and Il Fatto Quotidiano after the election night), so you are undermining the point with your example.
  - Udik 8y ago
    Ha, "Il Fatto Quotidiano" is pretty much the Five Stars party's official newspaper. So I don't know why they would call them populist (unless they decided that it's easier to redefine the value of the term rather than fight against it). Anyway, Five Stars's proposals are rather extreme, and they're outsiders who don't fit the left/ right division; as such it's easier to recognize and label them as populist than it is with the usual left-wing parties (when their proposals actually are populist, which is not a given).
HumanDrivenDev 8y ago
Populism is merely a word to discredit something that a lot of people like, that those in power do not. That is not to say that I agree with everything labeled 'populist'. I don't even think it's a left vs right thing, even if that's how it plays out now. I guarantee you if there was a broadly popular left-wing movement that actually threatened those in power, the media would label it populist as well.
- Udik 8y ago
  Populism is a precise way of appealing to basic emotions of a population by creating an "us vs them" narrative. You find an enemy, tell the people that the enemy is causing all their troubles and that you're the only cure because you're the only one on the people's side. Then when your supposed cure doesn't work, you find a new enemy to blame for your failure. It's stupid and incredibly dangerous.
  - HumanDrivenDev 8y ago
    Populism is a precise way of appealing to basic emotions of a population by creating an "us vs them" narrative. You find an enemy, tell the people that the enemy is causing all their troubles and that you're the only cure because you're the only one on the people's side. With a bit of perspective it's easy to see that this broadly describes socialism - which is the parents point. Socialism and social democracy is not commonly derided as 'populist'.
  - hanoz 8y ago
    But when those in power are the enemy of the people, then your definition is indistinguishable from your parent post's definition.
  - tomp 8y ago
    > Populism is a precise way of appealing to basic emotions of a population by creating an "us vs them" narrative Doesn't calling right-wingers "populists" do the very same?
    - 8y ago
orwin 8y ago
But wasn't the "increase social spending" move called populist by everyone during the 08 crisis? Most of the time, those porting the neo-keynesian theories to the national TV where called populist in my country. And during the presidential election, the populist werent those wanting to cut half the jobs in hospitals but those who wanted either increased social minimum income or the "universal income". The third kind of the so-called populists where those against euro or/and against immigration. Did you really check your affirmation, or is this just something that you think is an universal truth because you feel it's true in you country/social circle?
frabbit 8y ago
Perhaps it is because your assertion is unfounded? https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/07/italian-budget-populists-will-disappoint-voters-gentiloni-says.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/07/italian-budget-populists-wil... https://newrepublic.com/article/136327/all-rage-sanders-trump-populism https://newrepublic.com/article/136327/all-rage-sanders-trum... http://tah.oah.org/february-2016/if-trump-and-sanders-are-both-populists-what-does-populist-mean/ http://tah.oah.org/february-2016/if-trump-and-sanders-are-bo... https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/27/magazine/how-can-donald-trump-and-bernie-sanders-both-be-populist.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/27/magazine/how-can-donald-t... https://medium.com/@investigator_21314/bernie-sanders-white-populism-91503f9d04a0 https://medium.com/@investigator_21314/bernie-sanders-white-... https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/bernie-sanders-and-the-new-populism https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/bernie-sanders-a... etc More interestingly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX1689Hv9VI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX1689Hv9VI
pessimizer 8y ago
Yes, I remember Bernie Sanders never being called populist, and also currently not being called populist. Nothing more populist than tax cuts for the wealthy, that's what I always hear. /s Right-wing populism virtually never refers to tax cuts; just to curbs on immigration and the expulsion of minorities - a bottom up approach to help the poor members of the majority group by eliminating the people fighting them for crumbs through the use of vermin metaphors. If anything, comsumption-tax cuts are left-wing populism because consumption taxes are regressive.

by 21 8y ago

Udik 8y ago

Absolutely, for example Italy's "Five Stars" party, which is currently the majority party in the most populist government Italy has ever had, won the elections with a strong "anti-elites" platform and a (completely unrealistic) plan for redistributing money to a large part of the population.

orwin 8y ago
But the Five Star was called a populist party by most of the european media (and italian ones: see Il Tempo, L’Unione Sarda and Il Fatto Quotidiano after the election night), so you are undermining the point with your example.
- Udik 8y ago
  Ha, "Il Fatto Quotidiano" is pretty much the Five Stars party's official newspaper. So I don't know why they would call them populist (unless they decided that it's easier to redefine the value of the term rather than fight against it). Anyway, Five Stars's proposals are rather extreme, and they're outsiders who don't fit the left/ right division; as such it's easier to recognize and label them as populist than it is with the usual left-wing parties (when their proposals actually are populist, which is not a given).

HumanDrivenDev 8y ago

Populism is merely a word to discredit something that a lot of people like, that those in power do not. That is not to say that I agree with everything labeled 'populist'. I don't even think it's a left vs right thing, even if that's how it plays out now. I guarantee you if there was a broadly popular left-wing movement that actually threatened those in power, the media would label it populist as well.

Udik 8y ago
Populism is a precise way of appealing to basic emotions of a population by creating an "us vs them" narrative. You find an enemy, tell the people that the enemy is causing all their troubles and that you're the only cure because you're the only one on the people's side. Then when your supposed cure doesn't work, you find a new enemy to blame for your failure. It's stupid and incredibly dangerous.
- HumanDrivenDev 8y ago
  Populism is a precise way of appealing to basic emotions of a population by creating an "us vs them" narrative. You find an enemy, tell the people that the enemy is causing all their troubles and that you're the only cure because you're the only one on the people's side. With a bit of perspective it's easy to see that this broadly describes socialism - which is the parents point. Socialism and social democracy is not commonly derided as 'populist'.
- hanoz 8y ago
  But when those in power are the enemy of the people, then your definition is indistinguishable from your parent post's definition.
- tomp 8y ago
  > Populism is a precise way of appealing to basic emotions of a population by creating an "us vs them" narrative Doesn't calling right-wingers "populists" do the very same?
  - 8y ago

orwin 8y ago

But wasn't the "increase social spending" move called populist by everyone during the 08 crisis? Most of the time, those porting the neo-keynesian theories to the national TV where called populist in my country. And during the presidential election, the populist werent those wanting to cut half the jobs in hospitals but those who wanted either increased social minimum income or the "universal income". The third kind of the so-called populists where those against euro or/and against immigration. Did you really check your affirmation, or is this just something that you think is an universal truth because you feel it's true in you country/social circle?

frabbit 8y ago

Perhaps it is because your assertion is unfounded? https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/07/italian-budget-populists-will-disappoint-voters-gentiloni-says.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/07/italian-budget-populists-wil... https://newrepublic.com/article/136327/all-rage-sanders-trump-populism https://newrepublic.com/article/136327/all-rage-sanders-trum... http://tah.oah.org/february-2016/if-trump-and-sanders-are-both-populists-what-does-populist-mean/ http://tah.oah.org/february-2016/if-trump-and-sanders-are-bo... https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/27/magazine/how-can-donald-trump-and-bernie-sanders-both-be-populist.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/27/magazine/how-can-donald-t... https://medium.com/@investigator_21314/bernie-sanders-white-populism-91503f9d04a0 https://medium.com/@investigator_21314/bernie-sanders-white-... https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/bernie-sanders-and-the-new-populism https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/bernie-sanders-a... etc More interestingly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX1689Hv9VI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX1689Hv9VI

pessimizer 8y ago

Yes, I remember Bernie Sanders never being called populist, and also currently not being called populist. Nothing more populist than tax cuts for the wealthy, that's what I always hear. /s Right-wing populism virtually never refers to tax cuts; just to curbs on immigration and the expulsion of minorities - a bottom up approach to help the poor members of the majority group by eliminating the people fighting them for crumbs through the use of vermin metaphors. If anything, comsumption-tax cuts are left-wing populism because consumption taxes are regressive.