6 ms·

It acts as a deterrent, similar to door locks in homes. Lockpicking is relatively easy, and there is always brute force.

by fooker 8y ago

AckSyn 8y ago
The TSA does nothing of the sort. If you had read the various reports indicating their massive failures, stopping passengers from carrying firearms and knives has a terrible track record. So no, it does't deter anyone.
verelo 8y ago
I'd argue a better deterrent is knowing that there /might/ be an air marshal on the plane AND/OR the unknown security screening done on my checked luggage after it leaves my hands. The TSA are a terrible experience for anyone that encounters them, often giving a poor impression of the US to many first timers, and they are bad at their job! Yet we're not looking to take another approach? It's frankly...pathetic.
- Lkjhmnbv 8y ago
  With all do respect, that's not the best deterrent. The best deterrent is the door. Anyone who knows anything about the Germanwings crash (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525) knows this. The pilot used an axe on the door for minutes while knowing he was going to die. He didn't get in. Everyone died. The risks of hijacking are slim to none, unless you're going to hack the plane. If you're going to hack the plane you just need a laptop. The TSA is a federal jobs program. A nice joke I heard is to disband the TSA and have them be the workers building the wall. Sure it would be useless, but at least it wouldn't inconvenience law abiding citizens just trying to go about their day, treating them like criminals.
  - Gibbon1 8y ago
    We could in theory draft them into the Army Corps of Engineers and make them push wheelbarrows full of sand and gravel around in the Sonoran Desert. I like this idea.
    - verelo 8y ago
      While it might just make me feel better about all the times they made me remove my laptop from my bag, or take off my shoes, I would almost rather see them given real skills so they can be a useful part of humanity.
  - verelo 8y ago
    If you’re talking hijacking sure, i still think someone claiming “i have a bomb” will get commands through the door without it ever opening if they’re smart enough about it. The door is a good defence from immediate physical harm for sure, and probably the best change the industry has made in a long time, but i still think the security through stated obscurity element of the TSA could be improved to socially influence those considering any act against an air crew.
    - Lkjhmnbv 8y ago
      So the choice is: 1. Open the door and the person uses the plane as a big bomb. 2. Don't open the door and the person uses a smaller bomb. You die either way. What's the choice here?
      - verelo 8y ago
        That’s kind of my point? The door while having an impact doesn’t really change much.
        Lkjhmnbv 8y ago
        I'm not really at all sure how to even begin to respond to that. I mean surely you think that flights AA 11, ua 175, and AA 77 were materially different than UA 93. So I really don't get your point.
        verelo 8y ago
        You mean that one made it to it’s target and the other didn’t? Maybe I’m misunderstanding your point because it doest really feel like a discussion, rather an interview? Like, sure, if that’s success then ok...again I’m just saying i think there are alternative ways to improve security, and while a locking door is one of them, the TSA is probably another great place to look for improvements. It feels like the US airport security situation is stuck in the world of “look busy and sound strict, people will behave and respect the security of planes”, but really it’s just a giant pain in the ass for most people and meanwhile mostly ineffective at stopping actual risks from passing through to the aircraft. Real question: do you work for the TSA or airport security in some way?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Zelphyr 8y ago
I suspect the better deterrent, and the reason we haven’t seen another attack remotely similar to 9/11, is that the terrorists know we won’t fall for that again. There would be a whole airplane full of people willing to take down a would-be terrorist. The TSA is just a pacifier for people who buy that they’re effective.
- paulsutter 8y ago
  Yes that attack was viable for less than 1 hour. On flight 93 the passenger revolt began at 9:57AM, and the the first plane hit the World Trade Center at 9:01AM [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93 > After the hijackers took control of the plane, several passengers and flight attendants learned from phone calls that suicide attacks had already been made by hijacked airliners on the World Trade Center in New York City and the Pentagon in Arlington County, Virginia. Many of the passengers then attempted to regain control of the aircraft from the hijackers. During the struggle, the plane crashed into a field near a reclaimed strip mine in Stonycreek Township And if that hadn’t worked, before the crash the military was already authorized to shoot down that flight. So the system adapted quickly.
  - lawlessquestion 8y ago
    That's if you believe the fiction of 9-11. Free fall wtc, tower 7 falling for no reason other than the information it contained, and phone calls to family members that were most likely faked by the government
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  Also, we lock cockpit doors now and pilots aren't going to let someone in just because they threaten passengers or crew members with harm. I think we should give up on the TSA theater, but most people seem to want it. Makes them feel better, even if their rational minds know it's a lie.
  - WalterBright 8y ago

It acts as a deterrent, similar to door locks in homes. Lockpicking is relatively easy, and there is always brute force.

by fooker 8y ago

It acts as a deterrent, similar to door locks in homes. Lockpicking is relatively easy, and there is always brute force.

AckSyn 8y ago

The TSA does nothing of the sort. If you had read the various reports indicating their massive failures, stopping passengers from carrying firearms and knives has a terrible track record. So no, it does't deter anyone.

verelo 8y ago

I'd argue a better deterrent is knowing that there /might/ be an air marshal on the plane AND/OR the unknown security screening done on my checked luggage after it leaves my hands. The TSA are a terrible experience for anyone that encounters them, often giving a poor impression of the US to many first timers, and they are bad at their job! Yet we're not looking to take another approach? It's frankly...pathetic.

Lkjhmnbv 8y ago
With all do respect, that's not the best deterrent. The best deterrent is the door. Anyone who knows anything about the Germanwings crash (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525) knows this. The pilot used an axe on the door for minutes while knowing he was going to die. He didn't get in. Everyone died. The risks of hijacking are slim to none, unless you're going to hack the plane. If you're going to hack the plane you just need a laptop. The TSA is a federal jobs program. A nice joke I heard is to disband the TSA and have them be the workers building the wall. Sure it would be useless, but at least it wouldn't inconvenience law abiding citizens just trying to go about their day, treating them like criminals.
- Gibbon1 8y ago
  We could in theory draft them into the Army Corps of Engineers and make them push wheelbarrows full of sand and gravel around in the Sonoran Desert. I like this idea.
  - verelo 8y ago
    While it might just make me feel better about all the times they made me remove my laptop from my bag, or take off my shoes, I would almost rather see them given real skills so they can be a useful part of humanity.
- verelo 8y ago
  If you’re talking hijacking sure, i still think someone claiming “i have a bomb” will get commands through the door without it ever opening if they’re smart enough about it. The door is a good defence from immediate physical harm for sure, and probably the best change the industry has made in a long time, but i still think the security through stated obscurity element of the TSA could be improved to socially influence those considering any act against an air crew.
  - Lkjhmnbv 8y ago
    So the choice is: 1. Open the door and the person uses the plane as a big bomb. 2. Don't open the door and the person uses a smaller bomb. You die either way. What's the choice here?
    - verelo 8y ago
      That’s kind of my point? The door while having an impact doesn’t really change much.
      - Lkjhmnbv 8y ago
        I'm not really at all sure how to even begin to respond to that. I mean surely you think that flights AA 11, ua 175, and AA 77 were materially different than UA 93. So I really don't get your point.
        verelo 8y ago
        You mean that one made it to it’s target and the other didn’t? Maybe I’m misunderstanding your point because it doest really feel like a discussion, rather an interview? Like, sure, if that’s success then ok...again I’m just saying i think there are alternative ways to improve security, and while a locking door is one of them, the TSA is probably another great place to look for improvements. It feels like the US airport security situation is stuck in the world of “look busy and sound strict, people will behave and respect the security of planes”, but really it’s just a giant pain in the ass for most people and meanwhile mostly ineffective at stopping actual risks from passing through to the aircraft. Real question: do you work for the TSA or airport security in some way?

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

Zelphyr 8y ago

I suspect the better deterrent, and the reason we haven’t seen another attack remotely similar to 9/11, is that the terrorists know we won’t fall for that again. There would be a whole airplane full of people willing to take down a would-be terrorist. The TSA is just a pacifier for people who buy that they’re effective.

paulsutter 8y ago
Yes that attack was viable for less than 1 hour. On flight 93 the passenger revolt began at 9:57AM, and the the first plane hit the World Trade Center at 9:01AM [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93 > After the hijackers took control of the plane, several passengers and flight attendants learned from phone calls that suicide attacks had already been made by hijacked airliners on the World Trade Center in New York City and the Pentagon in Arlington County, Virginia. Many of the passengers then attempted to regain control of the aircraft from the hijackers. During the struggle, the plane crashed into a field near a reclaimed strip mine in Stonycreek Township And if that hadn’t worked, before the crash the military was already authorized to shoot down that flight. So the system adapted quickly.
- lawlessquestion 8y ago
  That's if you believe the fiction of 9-11. Free fall wtc, tower 7 falling for no reason other than the information it contained, and phone calls to family members that were most likely faked by the government
rootusrootus 8y ago
Also, we lock cockpit doors now and pilots aren't going to let someone in just because they threaten passengers or crew members with harm. I think we should give up on the TSA theater, but most people seem to want it. Makes them feel better, even if their rational minds know it's a lie.
- WalterBright 8y ago