6 ms·

Can you explain to me how it's more useful than a train that carries more people with less energy? Because, to me, it sounds like you just don't want to be unc

by codyb 8y ago

Can you explain to me how it's more useful than a train that carries more people with less energy? Because, to me, it sounds like you just don't want to be uncomfortable, and that's fine, nobody does, but it doesn't make something more useful.

lgas 8y ago
Being more comfortable is useful to me.
- enraged_camel 8y ago
  Trains can be extremely comfortable, actually. You can have things like food/drink service on them, not to mention WiFi.
  - sverige 8y ago
    The lack of comfort people refer to usually involves the other passengers, not the amenities. But everyone knows you're not supposed to talk specifically about that aspect of public transportation.
    - rootusrootus 8y ago
      Ha, I will! I once had a guy behind me on the train whip out his penis and pee on the floor. Looked right at me in the reflection of the window as he did it. He wasn't even crazy, either, as far as I could tell, just antisocial. And yes, before you say it, that isn't an everyday occurrence. But jackasses refusing to take their bag off the seat so you can sit down is. As are people who can't be bothered to take a shower, or think that cologne will make up for it. The list goes on. Many people are just unpleasant to be around, and I don't see any problem with that observation. For me, public transit comfort comes down to a couple things. First, the hard plastic seats make my butt hurt, and standing makes my left foot ache. Sorry, I'm getting old :). Second, the 2x time it takes to get anywhere means I'm on that terrible seat for even longer. And third, because yes, it's absolutely true, I find that perhaps one in ten people is unpleasant enough that I want to be out of visual and/or aromatic range.
      - mirimir 8y ago
        > First, the hard plastic seats make my butt hurt, Yeah, same for me. And I've heard that the ~80s crop of NYC subway cars were made in Japan. Except there, they have upholstered seats. But that wouldn't work out well in NYC, so they got hard plastic. But on the other hand, the oldest LIRR cars (refurbished for the 1966 World's Fair) had upholstered seats, and they were ~OK.
  - prepend 8y ago
    Never in my life have I experienced a puddle of urine in my personal vehicle. This happens about 5% of the time with my city’s public transport. Similarly, never have I been given religious literature or panhandled. This happens about 90% of the time.
    - Filligree 8y ago
      Sounds like you just have poor public transport. It doesn't have to be that way, and I've never experienced anything like it in Europe.
      - mirimir 8y ago
        Or maybe a dysfunctional society :(
      - xtracto 8y ago
        Oh i did in the UK: A guy masturbating at the end of a bus. A stupid kid throwing a can of Vimto to me from the top of the 2story bus. Car it is for me.
      - prepend 8y ago
        Yes,precisely. I found Vienna and Tokyo’s subway pretty immaculate. But London, Paris, Bilbao, Amsterdam all had some experiences similar to my other post. Much smaller sample so hard to say how frequently it occurs in any useful way.
    - codyb 8y ago
      5% is a staggering number! I rode the trains for four and a half years in NYC and just avoided the empty cars and never had too many issues. Also people seem to focus exclusively on the negative interactions which is a very human thing to do, but this discounts the positive interactions. It can be really nice seeing people offer their seats to the elderly, or kids meeting and playing, or the occasional furry companion in a cute bag. But I enjoy people watching in general. It can be neat to try to imagine a persons world and how it looks.
      - 8y ago
  - rootusrootus 8y ago
    My car has WiFi, and it is not even automated yet. And food & drink are perfectly feasible as well, remember we're talking about automated cars now. All kinds of options suddenly make sense when you don't have to worry about the chore of driving.
  - stevekemp 8y ago
    Some Finnish trains have play-areas for children on them. I was pleasantly surprised the last time I rode a train with my 1.5 year old child. He had a lot of fun going up and down the slide, sitting in the toy-train (on a train!) and reading books in the "library".
IshKebab 8y ago
Because trains don't go door to door. Obviously. Except in lucky places with great underground railways you basically have awkward last-mile journeys where you have to take a taxi or hit a car or take a bus and that adds a lot of time to the journey. It would be great if there were trains everywhere but frankly that's even harder than making a reliable driverless car.
- wongarsu 8y ago
  Which is why driverless cars are great for bringing people from and to public transport. They are a great ingredient for improving public transport, but they don't replace it (at least as soon as road capacity becomes an issue).
rootusrootus 8y ago
How do I get from my house to the train? Do I have to make transfers? How long will they take? What if I have to carry groceries, or take young children with me, or my elderly grandma? If I have a car, I load everyone and everything up, and we go. We get to our destination and unload, ta-da! Is this not an order of magnitude more useful than taking a train? Sometimes I think HN is filled with young people with uncomplicated lives :).
- Barrin92 8y ago
  >Sometimes I think HN is filled with young people with uncomplicated lives :). No, if these are big issues for you, you likely live in an American low density area where public transportation is scarce. In large metropolitan areas (which is after all, where most of the world already lives, and will live), getting on and off public transport is usually not a problem. I have relocated to Tokyo for example about a year ago, and for me, a trip to the grocery store is usually done by foot (same is true for other appliances), and multiple forms of public transport are in walking distance.
  - rootusrootus 8y ago
    I live in a city with about 700,000 residents inside the official limits, and 3,000,000 residents in the metro. The nearest bus stop is approximately a quarter mile away. With all due respect, the number of people who live in cities as dense as Tokyo are the minority, most of us don't.
    - Barrin92 8y ago
      No offense but if you think walking a quarter mile is a hindrance to access public transport then the car culture has done even more damage than I thought.
      - rootusrootus 8y ago
        On the contrary, I think a quarter mile is perfectly reasonable for a public transit stop in my city. Sorry to suggest otherwise. However, when I think about loading up my young children with all of their stuff, loading me up with everything I need, etc, and then dragging that down the street a quarter mile, then waiting for the bus, boarding it, riding to the transit center, transferring, riding another bus to the light rail station, riding that downtown, and then doing it all again the other direction... well, I'm pretty confident in my original point that the car is a hell of a lot more useful. Sure, you can exist with only the public transport option, but I was not asserting otherwise. But a lot of people on HN seem to think that not only is it possible, but that it is the superior choice. So, no offense taken, in fact I appreciate you affirming my original comment about so many folks on HN commenting from the viewpoint of someone with a young, uncomplicated life :-).
cameldrv 8y ago
I doubt that a train is significantly more energy efficient than an electric car with 3-4 people in it. Most people will probably use pool type autonomous cars which get you to your destination door to door much faster than trains.
- codyb 8y ago
  Trains can fit far more people than cars.

by codyb 8y ago

lgas 8y ago

Being more comfortable is useful to me.

enraged_camel 8y ago
Trains can be extremely comfortable, actually. You can have things like food/drink service on them, not to mention WiFi.
- sverige 8y ago
  The lack of comfort people refer to usually involves the other passengers, not the amenities. But everyone knows you're not supposed to talk specifically about that aspect of public transportation.
  - rootusrootus 8y ago
    Ha, I will! I once had a guy behind me on the train whip out his penis and pee on the floor. Looked right at me in the reflection of the window as he did it. He wasn't even crazy, either, as far as I could tell, just antisocial. And yes, before you say it, that isn't an everyday occurrence. But jackasses refusing to take their bag off the seat so you can sit down is. As are people who can't be bothered to take a shower, or think that cologne will make up for it. The list goes on. Many people are just unpleasant to be around, and I don't see any problem with that observation. For me, public transit comfort comes down to a couple things. First, the hard plastic seats make my butt hurt, and standing makes my left foot ache. Sorry, I'm getting old :). Second, the 2x time it takes to get anywhere means I'm on that terrible seat for even longer. And third, because yes, it's absolutely true, I find that perhaps one in ten people is unpleasant enough that I want to be out of visual and/or aromatic range.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      > First, the hard plastic seats make my butt hurt, Yeah, same for me. And I've heard that the ~80s crop of NYC subway cars were made in Japan. Except there, they have upholstered seats. But that wouldn't work out well in NYC, so they got hard plastic. But on the other hand, the oldest LIRR cars (refurbished for the 1966 World's Fair) had upholstered seats, and they were ~OK.
- prepend 8y ago
  Never in my life have I experienced a puddle of urine in my personal vehicle. This happens about 5% of the time with my city’s public transport. Similarly, never have I been given religious literature or panhandled. This happens about 90% of the time.
  - Filligree 8y ago
    Sounds like you just have poor public transport. It doesn't have to be that way, and I've never experienced anything like it in Europe.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      Or maybe a dysfunctional society :(
    - xtracto 8y ago
      Oh i did in the UK: A guy masturbating at the end of a bus. A stupid kid throwing a can of Vimto to me from the top of the 2story bus. Car it is for me.
    - prepend 8y ago
      Yes,precisely. I found Vienna and Tokyo’s subway pretty immaculate. But London, Paris, Bilbao, Amsterdam all had some experiences similar to my other post. Much smaller sample so hard to say how frequently it occurs in any useful way.
  - codyb 8y ago
    5% is a staggering number! I rode the trains for four and a half years in NYC and just avoided the empty cars and never had too many issues. Also people seem to focus exclusively on the negative interactions which is a very human thing to do, but this discounts the positive interactions. It can be really nice seeing people offer their seats to the elderly, or kids meeting and playing, or the occasional furry companion in a cute bag. But I enjoy people watching in general. It can be neat to try to imagine a persons world and how it looks.
    - 8y ago
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  My car has WiFi, and it is not even automated yet. And food & drink are perfectly feasible as well, remember we're talking about automated cars now. All kinds of options suddenly make sense when you don't have to worry about the chore of driving.
- stevekemp 8y ago
  Some Finnish trains have play-areas for children on them. I was pleasantly surprised the last time I rode a train with my 1.5 year old child. He had a lot of fun going up and down the slide, sitting in the toy-train (on a train!) and reading books in the "library".

IshKebab 8y ago

Because trains don't go door to door. Obviously. Except in lucky places with great underground railways you basically have awkward last-mile journeys where you have to take a taxi or hit a car or take a bus and that adds a lot of time to the journey. It would be great if there were trains everywhere but frankly that's even harder than making a reliable driverless car.

wongarsu 8y ago
Which is why driverless cars are great for bringing people from and to public transport. They are a great ingredient for improving public transport, but they don't replace it (at least as soon as road capacity becomes an issue).

rootusrootus 8y ago

How do I get from my house to the train? Do I have to make transfers? How long will they take? What if I have to carry groceries, or take young children with me, or my elderly grandma? If I have a car, I load everyone and everything up, and we go. We get to our destination and unload, ta-da! Is this not an order of magnitude more useful than taking a train? Sometimes I think HN is filled with young people with uncomplicated lives :).

Barrin92 8y ago
>Sometimes I think HN is filled with young people with uncomplicated lives :). No, if these are big issues for you, you likely live in an American low density area where public transportation is scarce. In large metropolitan areas (which is after all, where most of the world already lives, and will live), getting on and off public transport is usually not a problem. I have relocated to Tokyo for example about a year ago, and for me, a trip to the grocery store is usually done by foot (same is true for other appliances), and multiple forms of public transport are in walking distance.
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  I live in a city with about 700,000 residents inside the official limits, and 3,000,000 residents in the metro. The nearest bus stop is approximately a quarter mile away. With all due respect, the number of people who live in cities as dense as Tokyo are the minority, most of us don't.
  - Barrin92 8y ago
    No offense but if you think walking a quarter mile is a hindrance to access public transport then the car culture has done even more damage than I thought.
    - rootusrootus 8y ago
      On the contrary, I think a quarter mile is perfectly reasonable for a public transit stop in my city. Sorry to suggest otherwise. However, when I think about loading up my young children with all of their stuff, loading me up with everything I need, etc, and then dragging that down the street a quarter mile, then waiting for the bus, boarding it, riding to the transit center, transferring, riding another bus to the light rail station, riding that downtown, and then doing it all again the other direction... well, I'm pretty confident in my original point that the car is a hell of a lot more useful. Sure, you can exist with only the public transport option, but I was not asserting otherwise. But a lot of people on HN seem to think that not only is it possible, but that it is the superior choice. So, no offense taken, in fact I appreciate you affirming my original comment about so many folks on HN commenting from the viewpoint of someone with a young, uncomplicated life :-).

cameldrv 8y ago

I doubt that a train is significantly more energy efficient than an electric car with 3-4 people in it. Most people will probably use pool type autonomous cars which get you to your destination door to door much faster than trains.

codyb 8y ago
Trains can fit far more people than cars.