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Yeah, but they're gonna include a software patch that turns off the IC engine whenever an emissions detector is attached so it will always appear to be carbon n

Yeah, but they're gonna include a software patch that turns off the IC engine whenever an emissions detector is attached so it will always appear to be carbon neutral.

jmathai 8y ago
When I read the headline I couldn't help but think "how is VW still in business?". If you're not familiar with the degree to which they deceived regulators and the public I suggest the Netflix documentary. https://www.netflix.com/title/80118100 https://www.netflix.com/title/80118100 (Season 1, Episode 1).
- yason 8y ago
  The issue is a bit two-fold. Yes, they did shaft the regulators to get things green on paper but the owners of Volkswagen cars weren't exactly deprived of anything directly. Here in Europe there are people who have deliberately refused the VW fix because they'd rather keep the better fuel economy and engine response rather than comply with emissions regulations. Not complying is not exactly unheard of: instead of replacing faulty units people rip off diesel particulate filters and block EGR valves on diesel engines for performance and engine longevity reasons. Reducing pollution apparently isn't valued by the end-user market that much. And European car owners are very much price-sensitive because motoring in general is expensive and taxed high. Owning a Volkswagen isn't basically a worse experience than before. Their PR image might have suffered a hit, sure. But VW is huge and people in Europe still buy them. Diesel has been a bit unpopular in Europe recently but that's mostly because some cities are limiting or planning to limit old diesel cars from accessing the city centres.
  - jmathai 8y ago
    At a very micro level it maybe a true statement that someone wasn't deprived of anything they valued. However, an automaker has a responsibility at a macro level because they sell so many cars. Here's what seemed exceptional in the VW case. 1) They built cars with software that had a single purpose of misleading (lying is a more accurate term here) to regulators on their efficiency. 2) When caught they denied it. 3) When they couldn't deny it anymore they updated the software to mislead again (lying in hopes they could continue with the first lie) 4) By this point the highest levels in VW were involved. Not meeting emissions regulations may not be a big deal for everyone but it impacts others and it has direct impact on others. I'm not saying you are defending VW but I don't think anything they did was remotely defensible.
    - solarkraft 8y ago
      Beside all the lying, which should lead to more criminal cases, there is a far more sober angle to this issue: The vehicles were not emitting as much as specified in the papers. This is a pretty serious offense and fineable (iirc) at up to 12.000 Euros per vehicle in Germany. (Instead, of course, car makers are allowed to give rebates only when you buy another one of their vehicles).
    - yason 8y ago
      I'm not saying you are defending VW but I don't think anything they did was remotely defensible. I don't think it could be considered defensible at any level, either. But I do maintain that the market really doesn't seem to care: therefore VW are still in business which is what the parent was wondering. If you had bought a VW you really wouldn't have any reason to not keep driving it, as the end-user. Conversely, I do think people would be absolutely furious if VW had cheated in emissions and fuel mileage tests to make their cars seem to run on very little fuel but in practise the realistic mileage would be much lower for the majority of owners. And I mean much lower than the general gap between measured and actual fuel efficiency. In that case VW might really be struggling to survive if they didn't have better technology to show the market.
  - post_break 8y ago
    EGR and DPF deletes are very common in the states too, only on the diesel truck side. I own a diesel truck, and it won't win me any brownie points but I will consider an EGR delete since it absolutely kills the engine sooner. My truck takes DEF fluid and I won't tune it out or delete the DPF though, I like being able to breath.
anticensor 8y ago
Sudden power drop would be too noticable.

Yeah, but they're gonna include a software patch that turns off the IC engine whenever an emissions detector is attached so it will always appear to be carbon neutral.

jmathai 8y ago

When I read the headline I couldn't help but think "how is VW still in business?". If you're not familiar with the degree to which they deceived regulators and the public I suggest the Netflix documentary. https://www.netflix.com/title/80118100 https://www.netflix.com/title/80118100 (Season 1, Episode 1).

yason 8y ago
The issue is a bit two-fold. Yes, they did shaft the regulators to get things green on paper but the owners of Volkswagen cars weren't exactly deprived of anything directly. Here in Europe there are people who have deliberately refused the VW fix because they'd rather keep the better fuel economy and engine response rather than comply with emissions regulations. Not complying is not exactly unheard of: instead of replacing faulty units people rip off diesel particulate filters and block EGR valves on diesel engines for performance and engine longevity reasons. Reducing pollution apparently isn't valued by the end-user market that much. And European car owners are very much price-sensitive because motoring in general is expensive and taxed high. Owning a Volkswagen isn't basically a worse experience than before. Their PR image might have suffered a hit, sure. But VW is huge and people in Europe still buy them. Diesel has been a bit unpopular in Europe recently but that's mostly because some cities are limiting or planning to limit old diesel cars from accessing the city centres.
- jmathai 8y ago
  At a very micro level it maybe a true statement that someone wasn't deprived of anything they valued. However, an automaker has a responsibility at a macro level because they sell so many cars. Here's what seemed exceptional in the VW case. 1) They built cars with software that had a single purpose of misleading (lying is a more accurate term here) to regulators on their efficiency. 2) When caught they denied it. 3) When they couldn't deny it anymore they updated the software to mislead again (lying in hopes they could continue with the first lie) 4) By this point the highest levels in VW were involved. Not meeting emissions regulations may not be a big deal for everyone but it impacts others and it has direct impact on others. I'm not saying you are defending VW but I don't think anything they did was remotely defensible.
  - solarkraft 8y ago
    Beside all the lying, which should lead to more criminal cases, there is a far more sober angle to this issue: The vehicles were not emitting as much as specified in the papers. This is a pretty serious offense and fineable (iirc) at up to 12.000 Euros per vehicle in Germany. (Instead, of course, car makers are allowed to give rebates only when you buy another one of their vehicles).
  - yason 8y ago
    I'm not saying you are defending VW but I don't think anything they did was remotely defensible. I don't think it could be considered defensible at any level, either. But I do maintain that the market really doesn't seem to care: therefore VW are still in business which is what the parent was wondering. If you had bought a VW you really wouldn't have any reason to not keep driving it, as the end-user. Conversely, I do think people would be absolutely furious if VW had cheated in emissions and fuel mileage tests to make their cars seem to run on very little fuel but in practise the realistic mileage would be much lower for the majority of owners. And I mean much lower than the general gap between measured and actual fuel efficiency. In that case VW might really be struggling to survive if they didn't have better technology to show the market.
- post_break 8y ago
  EGR and DPF deletes are very common in the states too, only on the diesel truck side. I own a diesel truck, and it won't win me any brownie points but I will consider an EGR delete since it absolutely kills the engine sooner. My truck takes DEF fluid and I won't tune it out or delete the DPF though, I like being able to breath.

anticensor 8y ago

Sudden power drop would be too noticable.