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They can have whatever plans they want, it doesn't mean they have a remote chance of success. The natural resource of the information age is not iron or oil, b

They can have whatever plans they want, it doesn't mean they have a remote chance of success. The natural resource of the information age is not iron or oil, but a populace of free thinkers who are unafraid to fail while working outside of cultural norms. Why does the US dominate the Internet? It's not because our 1s and 0s are better quality, or our technology education is superior or even that we have better funding for tech (it costs almost nothing to create a web site except time, desire and expertise.) It's our culture: we value the pioneer spirit. New frontiers are dove into head first. China's recent successes can be attributed to intellectual theft from innovative cultures, and brutal oppression of their own people. This does not scale. Until they free the minds of their populace, they will never be able to globally complete in science and technology.

rorykoehler 8y ago
People have been saying China haven't a hope in succeeding since the 80s yet here we are. Smashing everyone out of the water with ease. Doing the unthinkable as a matter of fact. They play to win and they're good at it.
- protonfish 8y ago
  Yes, it's that attitude that's the problem. Not all problems can be solved with tanks. And they are getting worse, not better, no matter what their propaganda shills claim.
- krapp 8y ago
  Other than Japanese fishing vessels, who has China been "smashing out of the water with ease?"
  - onemoresoop 8y ago
    World's expectations!
- rellui 8y ago
  The thing is back in the 80's, China was starting from a low point. It's easy to catch up which is what they've done but like the original poster said, it's much tougher to take the lead position. I agree with him that the Chinese culture makes it harder to innovate.
  - rorykoehler 8y ago
    While I can see the logic in the argument I think it doesn't reflect in reality. For example they are miles ahead in stem cell research because they pursue technological advancement with much less concern about morals and regulation at the research phase.
    - lightedman 8y ago
      Yet until only last year or so they didn't even have the technology to build a reliable ball point pen.
    - pasabagi 8y ago
      Are they miles ahead? My impression of Chinese biology isn't that it's super advanced - I mean, it's another subject, but consider the recent headlines about the CRISPR baby. Ask any biologist about that experiment, and they'll tell you it's not only the ethics that are seriously bizarre, but just the idea that you should use something like CRISPR on a baby at this stage in the technology's development. It's mad science, but it's not likely good science.
karmasimida 8y ago
> China's recent successes can be attributed to intellectual theft from innovative cultures, and brutal oppression of their own people. This does not scale. It scales pretty well. Reason? Facts. Anyone saying China can't innovate is self-denial.
- protonfish 8y ago
  Theft doesn't scale. Like a parasite that kills its own host, after you drive your victim out of business, who will you steal from then? Using fear and brutal dominance causes people to take less risks and focus on appearing to succeed instead of committing to the unpopular, long-term effort and delayed results that innovation requires. China's appearance of recent success is exactly that - an appearance. A thin facade created by a PR campaign. We all know from being ripped off on Amazon the real quality of Chinese products. It's exactly what one would expect from a country of prisoners. If China is such a great power, why not compete on a even field? Get rid of the mail subsidies and use a fair currency exchange rate. You won't, because you know your backwater has no hope of competing with civilized nations. Arrogance and corruption are not a replacement for responsible and effective.
  - yourbandsucks 8y ago
    "civilized nations"? Pride goeth before the fall..
    - dnomad 8y ago
      Yeah, this kind of blind racism and ignorance of what's actually happening in China is always a bit shocking. A lot of people are going to look back on the US from 2001 to 2030 and ask themselves how people be so totally blind and stupid. It's going to be one of those monumental historical blunders that will never really be lived down.
      - lightedman 8y ago
        "Yeah, this kind of blind racism and ignorance of what's actually happening in China is always a bit shocking. A lot of people are going to look back on the US from 2001 to 2030 and ask themselves how people be so totally blind and stupid." Speak for yourself; my Chinese boss explicitly confirms that the majority of Chinese companies steal, in fact that's why many are moving into the USA to manufacture their products - to get at our manufacturing and improve their own with American engineers footing the hard work at a cheap (almost minimum wage) price. You keep thinking those of us with an adamant position on China's constant theft are being racist, you've got blinders on way too tightly, you can't even see what's plainly right in front of you.
maxerickson 8y ago
Information wants to be a keystone of the US economy?
nopinsight 8y ago
The US does have a great innovation-oriented culture but much of it stems from continual immigration of brilliant people from all over the world as well as being the largest single market with largely uniform culture and language, which greatly helps with the scaling of large enterprises. China's domestic market is coming close to the US size and arguably larger in PPP terms which matters more than in dollars since the costs for R&D are often dominated by domestic salary. Anyone knowledgeable about Chinese domestic market will attest to its vitality and bustling competitive spirits, not to mention intense work ethics that results in rapid experimentation and iteration. The US continues to lead in breakthroughs but rollouts of innovation happen faster in the Chinese market. With more funding and resources, China also starts to lead in fields they focus on including quantum communications, some areas in AI, and a few other engineering fields. What is clearly lacking for the US is solid education in mathematics. This deficiency leaves the majority of population behind most peers in the developed world. The gap behind East Asian nations including China is especially acute as shown by the PISA result. The gap in math between US and participating Chinese provinces (200+ million population) in PISA 2015 is about 0.6 SD, or roughly comparable to students with 2.7 vs 3.3 GPA. The US needs to expend more effort to attract the best people in the world while pushing ahead with education reforms. The latter takes over a decade to bear fruits, however, so attracting and retaining global innovators should be a key current priority. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_...
- baybal2 8y ago
  > The US needs to expend more effort to attract the best people in the world US did that for the last 50 years, and it did not work out as much as it was imagined it would. You do not only need a world class academicians, but their second-in-command people, regular full time researchers, junior assistants for them, and qualified blue collar workers to help run universities they will be working in.
pault 8y ago
Political change in China is more plausible than the US suddenly increasing its population by 800 million or so.
cylinder 8y ago
If you really think it's Americans with the pioneer spirit these days you should spend a month driving around the US observing people then do the same for the cities in China.
- Lio 8y ago
  Could you elaborate? What differences would you expect your driver to see?
stewbrew 8y ago
Are you talking about free non-military funded thinking outside of Microsoft, Alphabet, Oracle, IBM and other corporations?

rorykoehler 8y ago

People have been saying China haven't a hope in succeeding since the 80s yet here we are. Smashing everyone out of the water with ease. Doing the unthinkable as a matter of fact. They play to win and they're good at it.

protonfish 8y ago
Yes, it's that attitude that's the problem. Not all problems can be solved with tanks. And they are getting worse, not better, no matter what their propaganda shills claim.
krapp 8y ago
Other than Japanese fishing vessels, who has China been "smashing out of the water with ease?"
- onemoresoop 8y ago
  World's expectations!
rellui 8y ago
The thing is back in the 80's, China was starting from a low point. It's easy to catch up which is what they've done but like the original poster said, it's much tougher to take the lead position. I agree with him that the Chinese culture makes it harder to innovate.
- rorykoehler 8y ago
  While I can see the logic in the argument I think it doesn't reflect in reality. For example they are miles ahead in stem cell research because they pursue technological advancement with much less concern about morals and regulation at the research phase.
  - lightedman 8y ago
    Yet until only last year or so they didn't even have the technology to build a reliable ball point pen.
  - pasabagi 8y ago
    Are they miles ahead? My impression of Chinese biology isn't that it's super advanced - I mean, it's another subject, but consider the recent headlines about the CRISPR baby. Ask any biologist about that experiment, and they'll tell you it's not only the ethics that are seriously bizarre, but just the idea that you should use something like CRISPR on a baby at this stage in the technology's development. It's mad science, but it's not likely good science.

karmasimida 8y ago

> China's recent successes can be attributed to intellectual theft from innovative cultures, and brutal oppression of their own people. This does not scale. It scales pretty well. Reason? Facts. Anyone saying China can't innovate is self-denial.

protonfish 8y ago
Theft doesn't scale. Like a parasite that kills its own host, after you drive your victim out of business, who will you steal from then? Using fear and brutal dominance causes people to take less risks and focus on appearing to succeed instead of committing to the unpopular, long-term effort and delayed results that innovation requires. China's appearance of recent success is exactly that - an appearance. A thin facade created by a PR campaign. We all know from being ripped off on Amazon the real quality of Chinese products. It's exactly what one would expect from a country of prisoners. If China is such a great power, why not compete on a even field? Get rid of the mail subsidies and use a fair currency exchange rate. You won't, because you know your backwater has no hope of competing with civilized nations. Arrogance and corruption are not a replacement for responsible and effective.
- yourbandsucks 8y ago
  "civilized nations"? Pride goeth before the fall..
  - dnomad 8y ago
    Yeah, this kind of blind racism and ignorance of what's actually happening in China is always a bit shocking. A lot of people are going to look back on the US from 2001 to 2030 and ask themselves how people be so totally blind and stupid. It's going to be one of those monumental historical blunders that will never really be lived down.
    - lightedman 8y ago
      "Yeah, this kind of blind racism and ignorance of what's actually happening in China is always a bit shocking. A lot of people are going to look back on the US from 2001 to 2030 and ask themselves how people be so totally blind and stupid." Speak for yourself; my Chinese boss explicitly confirms that the majority of Chinese companies steal, in fact that's why many are moving into the USA to manufacture their products - to get at our manufacturing and improve their own with American engineers footing the hard work at a cheap (almost minimum wage) price. You keep thinking those of us with an adamant position on China's constant theft are being racist, you've got blinders on way too tightly, you can't even see what's plainly right in front of you.

maxerickson 8y ago

Information wants to be a keystone of the US economy?

nopinsight 8y ago

The US does have a great innovation-oriented culture but much of it stems from continual immigration of brilliant people from all over the world as well as being the largest single market with largely uniform culture and language, which greatly helps with the scaling of large enterprises. China's domestic market is coming close to the US size and arguably larger in PPP terms which matters more than in dollars since the costs for R&D are often dominated by domestic salary. Anyone knowledgeable about Chinese domestic market will attest to its vitality and bustling competitive spirits, not to mention intense work ethics that results in rapid experimentation and iteration. The US continues to lead in breakthroughs but rollouts of innovation happen faster in the Chinese market. With more funding and resources, China also starts to lead in fields they focus on including quantum communications, some areas in AI, and a few other engineering fields. What is clearly lacking for the US is solid education in mathematics. This deficiency leaves the majority of population behind most peers in the developed world. The gap behind East Asian nations including China is especially acute as shown by the PISA result. The gap in math between US and participating Chinese provinces (200+ million population) in PISA 2015 is about 0.6 SD, or roughly comparable to students with 2.7 vs 3.3 GPA. The US needs to expend more effort to attract the best people in the world while pushing ahead with education reforms. The latter takes over a decade to bear fruits, however, so attracting and retaining global innovators should be a key current priority. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_...

baybal2 8y ago
> The US needs to expend more effort to attract the best people in the world US did that for the last 50 years, and it did not work out as much as it was imagined it would. You do not only need a world class academicians, but their second-in-command people, regular full time researchers, junior assistants for them, and qualified blue collar workers to help run universities they will be working in.

pault 8y ago

Political change in China is more plausible than the US suddenly increasing its population by 800 million or so.

cylinder 8y ago

If you really think it's Americans with the pioneer spirit these days you should spend a month driving around the US observing people then do the same for the cities in China.

Lio 8y ago
Could you elaborate? What differences would you expect your driver to see?

stewbrew 8y ago

Are you talking about free non-military funded thinking outside of Microsoft, Alphabet, Oracle, IBM and other corporations?