6 ms·

If anyone told me a decade ago that a day will come when I will feel sorry for Microsoft browser technology going away...

nashashmi 8y ago
10 years ago it was forseeable that MS would lose the browser wars. BTW, this is not the first time MS has considered Chromium. Back before the fork of Edge, they considered using Webkit.
- jansan 8y ago
  Maybe Webkit would have fewer bugs by now if Microsoft had chosen it for Edge a few years ago.
- zokier 8y ago
  By 2008 it was fairly obvious that MS wasn't serious contender in the browser market anymore. This was two years after IE7 release which itself was pretty lackluster, and IE8 was still nowhere to be seen. Firefox popularity was pretty much at its peak, and Chrome was just released immediately starting to eat up the world.
linuxlizard 8y ago
Ouch. True. So weird for me to feel that way.
dman 8y ago
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
- fixermark 8y ago
  "Do. Or do not. There is no try." ;)
kevmo 8y ago
It's too bad Microsoft didn't get broken up in the 90s. We'd probably have more browser options.
- acjohnson55 8y ago
  It's too bad Google isn't being broken up now.
  - kevmo 8y ago
    This is why I'm already on board for Bernie Sanders 2020. I don't think any other contender out there is going to stand up to these giant companies, which is what our economy desperately needs.
    - oxymoron 8y ago
      ”This is why I’m already on board for Barack Obama 2008.” But the tech industry is a key contributor for any democratic contender, so I don’t expect much progress here. Might still be the right choice though, but I don’t think this is the issue where you should turn your hopes on the democrats.
      - kevmo 8y ago
        Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat.
        sushisource 8y ago
        That really needs some sarcasm quotes around it. Technically true. Practically, no.
        dragonwriter 8y ago
        > Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat. Bernie Sanders is occasionally a Democrat; particularly, he was when running for President in 2016 and almost certainly will be if he runs for President in 2020; as a Senator he is “merely” an independent who caucuses with the Democrats, doesn't have the Democratic Party support candidates against him, and is the Democratic caucus’s ranking member of the Senate Banking Committee.
PunchTornado 8y ago
as a frontender I'm not sad. A lot of bugs coming in from Edge. And Edge has a pretty shit debugger too. So no tears for me. Waiting for Safari to die. Firefox and Chrome are good.
- derefr 8y ago
  Why would Safari [i.e. Webkit] die? Looking at desktop + mobile market shares, if anyone would be "the next to die", it'd be Firefox.
  - baroffoos 8y ago
    Safari is a huge pain in the ass to test on because you have to own apple hardware to do it. Firefox and chrome can be installed on anything and microsoft gave you a VM to test IE and Edge in.
    - derefr 8y ago
      I didn't say "why should it die", I said "why would it die." Unless you mean that you find it likely that some appreciable fraction of developers will stop owning Apple hardware at some point.
  - PunchTornado 8y ago
    I said I wish it would die. Really slow in keeping up with the standards.
severino 8y ago
Well, I think it's actually two different things: I don't feel bad at all seeing IE/Edge coming to an end. It was a closed, non free, single-platform browser, who gave a lot of people a lot of headaches during the last 20 years. On the other hand, I'm worried by the fact that Google browser market share continues to grow.
- nradov 8y ago
  It's also a good reminder that monopolies in the tech industry are fleeting. The concerns that people have today over Facebook becoming a monopoly will seem a bit silly in 20 years after they miss a disruptive change and lose out to a new competitor.
  - Vinnl 8y ago
    It's also good to remind yourself that this is not a law, and that you could easily have worried about Google's dominance in search a decade ago and still be right today.
- ehsankia 8y ago
  Honest question, what has Edge/IE actually contributed to the web in the past decade? I understand that having one less engine is not preferable, but realistically, it always felt like they were dragging behind struggling to keep up, while Apple, Google and Mozilla kept forging ahead. By using Blink, maybe they can spend more time actually contributing to the spec and having an independent voice elsewhere?
  - robin_reala 8y ago
    Grid layout is the big one, but there are plenty of smaller examples.
  - aloisdg 8y ago
    > Honest question, what has Edge/IE actually contributed to the web in the past decade? Ajax
  - 8y ago
ChuckMcM 8y ago
It is a weird flip isn't it? It feels more like a 'pick your battles' thing though. Microsoft has been assailed on the browser front for a long time. An alternative would have been to open source it (like the Chromium code base) so that "anyone" could build browsers based on their code base.
- nradov 8y ago
  The Edge code base is probably so tightly coupled to the Windows API that it could never practically be ported to another platform.
  - ChuckMcM 8y ago
    I don't disagree. However, if I understand what Satya Nadella is trying to do with Microsoft, I would expect to see growth in open source Windows targeted software. For me, I think a reasonable definition of a healthy development platform is one where developers are investing their time and sharing their expertise to develop tools and applications specifically for that platform. Having a windows focused code base for web browsing and all of the components that entails could be an encouraging reef from which open source eco-systems could spring.

nashashmi 8y ago

10 years ago it was forseeable that MS would lose the browser wars. BTW, this is not the first time MS has considered Chromium. Back before the fork of Edge, they considered using Webkit.

jansan 8y ago
Maybe Webkit would have fewer bugs by now if Microsoft had chosen it for Edge a few years ago.
zokier 8y ago
By 2008 it was fairly obvious that MS wasn't serious contender in the browser market anymore. This was two years after IE7 release which itself was pretty lackluster, and IE8 was still nowhere to be seen. Firefox popularity was pretty much at its peak, and Chrome was just released immediately starting to eat up the world.

linuxlizard 8y ago

Ouch. True. So weird for me to feel that way.

dman 8y ago

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

fixermark 8y ago
"Do. Or do not. There is no try." ;)

kevmo 8y ago

It's too bad Microsoft didn't get broken up in the 90s. We'd probably have more browser options.

acjohnson55 8y ago
It's too bad Google isn't being broken up now.
- kevmo 8y ago
  This is why I'm already on board for Bernie Sanders 2020. I don't think any other contender out there is going to stand up to these giant companies, which is what our economy desperately needs.
  - oxymoron 8y ago
    ”This is why I’m already on board for Barack Obama 2008.” But the tech industry is a key contributor for any democratic contender, so I don’t expect much progress here. Might still be the right choice though, but I don’t think this is the issue where you should turn your hopes on the democrats.
    - kevmo 8y ago
      Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat.
      - sushisource 8y ago
        That really needs some sarcasm quotes around it. Technically true. Practically, no.
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat. Bernie Sanders is occasionally a Democrat; particularly, he was when running for President in 2016 and almost certainly will be if he runs for President in 2020; as a Senator he is “merely” an independent who caucuses with the Democrats, doesn't have the Democratic Party support candidates against him, and is the Democratic caucus’s ranking member of the Senate Banking Committee.

PunchTornado 8y ago

as a frontender I'm not sad. A lot of bugs coming in from Edge. And Edge has a pretty shit debugger too. So no tears for me. Waiting for Safari to die. Firefox and Chrome are good.

derefr 8y ago
Why would Safari [i.e. Webkit] die? Looking at desktop + mobile market shares, if anyone would be "the next to die", it'd be Firefox.
- baroffoos 8y ago
  Safari is a huge pain in the ass to test on because you have to own apple hardware to do it. Firefox and chrome can be installed on anything and microsoft gave you a VM to test IE and Edge in.
  - derefr 8y ago
    I didn't say "why should it die", I said "why would it die." Unless you mean that you find it likely that some appreciable fraction of developers will stop owning Apple hardware at some point.
- PunchTornado 8y ago
  I said I wish it would die. Really slow in keeping up with the standards.

severino 8y ago

Well, I think it's actually two different things: I don't feel bad at all seeing IE/Edge coming to an end. It was a closed, non free, single-platform browser, who gave a lot of people a lot of headaches during the last 20 years. On the other hand, I'm worried by the fact that Google browser market share continues to grow.

nradov 8y ago
It's also a good reminder that monopolies in the tech industry are fleeting. The concerns that people have today over Facebook becoming a monopoly will seem a bit silly in 20 years after they miss a disruptive change and lose out to a new competitor.
- Vinnl 8y ago
  It's also good to remind yourself that this is not a law, and that you could easily have worried about Google's dominance in search a decade ago and still be right today.
ehsankia 8y ago
Honest question, what has Edge/IE actually contributed to the web in the past decade? I understand that having one less engine is not preferable, but realistically, it always felt like they were dragging behind struggling to keep up, while Apple, Google and Mozilla kept forging ahead. By using Blink, maybe they can spend more time actually contributing to the spec and having an independent voice elsewhere?
- robin_reala 8y ago
  Grid layout is the big one, but there are plenty of smaller examples.
- aloisdg 8y ago
  > Honest question, what has Edge/IE actually contributed to the web in the past decade? Ajax
- 8y ago

ChuckMcM 8y ago

It is a weird flip isn't it? It feels more like a 'pick your battles' thing though. Microsoft has been assailed on the browser front for a long time. An alternative would have been to open source it (like the Chromium code base) so that "anyone" could build browsers based on their code base.

nradov 8y ago
The Edge code base is probably so tightly coupled to the Windows API that it could never practically be ported to another platform.
- ChuckMcM 8y ago
  I don't disagree. However, if I understand what Satya Nadella is trying to do with Microsoft, I would expect to see growth in open source Windows targeted software. For me, I think a reasonable definition of a healthy development platform is one where developers are investing their time and sharing their expertise to develop tools and applications specifically for that platform. Having a windows focused code base for web browsing and all of the components that entails could be an encouraging reef from which open source eco-systems could spring.