7 ms·

More likely just phones without access to facebook's internal corporate network, which grants many more privileges to the app and the company than everyday face

More likely just phones without access to facebook's internal corporate network, which grants many more privileges to the app and the company than everyday facebook access gets. They likely also dodge accounts connected to the one their employer recognizes. Calling these "burner phones" is a little silly. They are just completely private, non-corporate phones. I've never trusted any company to either pay for my own phone or plan, if that requires allowing it special access.

iamdave 8y ago
Calling these "burner phones" is a little silly. They are just completely private, non-corporate phones. So a phone used to duck surveillance from a powerful entity to conduct discussions about things you don't want that entity knowing about, colloquially goes by what other name then? I get it if the implicit association between a "real" burner phone and these devices might not be a complete and perfect parallel but I think here the term is apt (unless we're legitimately just talking about someone's every day personal phone, but that wasn't the impression I got-the article doesn't really talk more about what these devices are)
- SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
  Meh, typically burner would be disposable. He’s arguing you don’t need to ‘burn’ this device after using. It’s just a normal phone that you can keep using. Burner-like if it works better for you.
  - iamdave 8y ago
    He’s arguing you don’t need to ‘burn’ this device after using. It’s just a normal phone that you can keep using We don't know that as a fact, do we? In this specific case I mean, I know how burner phones are used, but we have from the piece an interesting nugget that isn't really fleshed out. Maybe the employee just used 'burner phone' to get the point across quickly of the lengths employees were going through, maybe it's an allusion to something more but it's a nugget I found interesting nonetheless.
- compiler-guy 8y ago
  They don't duck surveillance from facebook as you and I know it, but from facebook as an employer, which is very different. If a company provides your phone, then it has access to it, and if you don't want your company to have access to what you do on it, you use a different phone. If you want the convenience of a personal phone that you can check your work mail (or work facebook groups) on, then you grant access to that company. It isn't any different from when a law firm or bank provides its employees phones. If you don't want that firm or bank to read what you write on it, then you need another phone. A "burner phone" gets thrown away--"burned"--to prevent the someone from tracking you. You don't allow anyone to know you use it. No one at facebook cares if you use a second phone. So some better terms would be "personal phone" or "non-corporate phone".
  - iamdave 8y ago
    If a company provides your phone, then it has access to it, and if you don't want your company to have access to what you do on it, you use a different phone. If you want the convenience of a personal phone that you can check your work mail (or work facebook groups) on, then you grant access to that company. Right, and as I said in another comment, my statement here isn't to suggest I don't know what a burner phone is. My statement above is because I'd think someone would either say "We use our personal phones" or something similar to describe how they talk about FB without FB knowing it. Describing your personal phone as a "burner phone" seems odd and possibly telling that there's something else there. There very well might NOT be, but as I mentioned before: the article doesn't really say much further so it's hard to know.
    - diminoten 8y ago
      > Describing your personal phone as a "burner phone" seems odd and possibly telling that there's something else there. Doesn't seem odd to me, in the context of a) a former employee sensationalizing the situation and/or b) hiding behavior from any employer.
      - Varcht 8y ago
        Next you will tell us that Trump really had his "wires tapped"...
- rrix2 8y ago
  > So a phone used to duck surveillance from a powerful entity to conduct discussions about things you don't want that entity knowing about, colloquially goes by what other name then? A "personal device"
  - babygoat 8y ago
    Surely you jest.
- lisper 8y ago
  A burner phone is one that you intend to discard after using it to conduct some clandestine, often illegal, activity. Just because a phone is private doesn't make it a burner.
  - philipov 8y ago
    A burner is a phone you intend to discard if it becomes compromised. Just because you don't have to burn it doesn't make it not a burner.
    - FPGAhacker 8y ago
      Because you will definitely know when your phone is compromised.
    - diminoten 8y ago
      So then this most certainly isn't a burner phone situation, because Facebook employees wouldn't actually "burn" these phones.
    - mbrumlow 8y ago
      It is not when compromised. It all depends on your threat level and what you are using it for. Some people use once and burn, some burn one a day, or once a week, and some -- like you said, burn when they think it is compromised.
  - chongli 8y ago
    Often illegal, but not always. Prudent travelers use burner phones when they cross borders in order to avoid dragnet searches by customs.
- asauce 8y ago
  Facebook gives employees corporate phones. It seemed to me that these "burner" phones were just personal phones sensationalized for the article. At my last job I was given a corporate phone as well as my own personal phone. Some coworkers decided to do everything on their corporate phone. I chose to keep the two separate, but I wouldn't say that I was using my personal phone as a "burner".
  - iamdave 8y ago
    It seemed to me that these "burner" phones were just personal phones sensationalized for the article. Definitely do not want to rule that out, you're right to bring this up, but agreed. Calling your personal phone a 'burner', seems novel? Not sure if there's a better word there.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  > So a phone used to duck surveillance from a powerful entity to conduct discussions about things you don't want that entity knowing about, colloquially goes by what other name then? Yes. A burner phone is a device you use once or twice, then dump (burn). I seriously doubt bookface employees are dumping their personal cell phones after sending a couple shit talk messages to their friends about their employer.
- garmaine 8y ago
  > So a phone used to duck surveillance from a powerful entity to conduct discussions about things you don't want that entity knowing about, colloquially goes by what other name then? A non-corporate phone. “Burner phone” is something very specific and refers to prepaid phones without attached identity at the network level. Which, as the name implies, can be “burned” (discarded) after use.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
pvarangot 8y ago
It is a burner phone. What's silly is you have to use those techniques to discuss office politics with your coworkers.
- randyrand 8y ago
  Is it? I do the same thing. My 'burner phone' is my personal phone that I use 24/7 for everything, and I have a separate work phone with default VPN required, etc. It's not really a burner phone.
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> Calling these "burner phones" is a little silly Calling a personal phone your "burner phone" is silly. But if you work at Facebook, you're aware your personal phone may be leaking data. A phone purchased specifically to talk about things you don't want Facebook to hear is roughly accurately described as a "burner," even if it isn't discarded after use. (Broadly speaking, this is a prudent step for whistleblowers to take. Buy a cheap phone, turn off all non-essential services, and install Signal.)
- neves 8y ago
  You have a high quality phone given to you from the company you work. Since you don't trust your company, you fell the need to buy another phone that will depreciate in a couple of years. You also need to carry another brick in your pocket or purse. Just to be able to talk freely. Sure it is a burn phone. I have wifi access when I'm on my company, but I don't feel the need to buy another phone just to be able to speak freely.
  - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    > I don't feel the need to buy another phone just to be able to speak freely If you aren’t whistleblowing, that’s reasonable. Companies have every tool available to pursue NDA breachers, trader secret stealers and insider traders on their hands to chase whistleblowers. Phones are cheaper than heavy litigation and the threat of prison time.
    - disgruntledphd2 8y ago
      Even when a company gives me a phone, I keep my personal. If you leave a company unexpectedly (which can happen), it's good if you don't give up the ability to be contacted. I made this mistake in my twenties, and never again.
      - neves 8y ago
        Good point. When a company gives you a phone, can't you mantain the number when you leave?
jbigelow76 8y ago
I've never trusted any company to either pay for my own phone or plan, if that requires allowing it special access. Lot's of companies provide a limited scope Wifi access for contractors, vendors, etc, when on campus. The level of insight might not be as high but the host company can potentially still track things like local network traffic without requiring "special access" beyond Wifi usage. If the FB employees don't want to acknowledge the existence of these phones then they are definitely "burners".
- unethical_ban 8y ago
  Any phone with mobile device management (MDM) like SecureWeb or "Good" or others, can see at the least, all the apps installed on the phone, as well as the ability to remote wipe phones. Don't know if they have the capacity to read data for individual apps. And if you have your employer manage your phone plan, I assume they have access to your call records.
3pt14159 8y ago
I've seen first hand people high up in startups monitoring what their employees say in assumed-to-be-private chats to each other. Technically it was part of the employee agreement that nobody read. It's not a perfect, but one way to tell that the startup you're in is monitoring you is that they hand you a computer with your login already created. If you're opening up the Apple box yourself then it's much more likely to be free from keyloggers, etc. But don't trust shared sign-in stuff like Google Apps for Business to be private.
- Consultant32452 8y ago
  It always amazes me how many people are willing to bash management over work chat. Like... you can be 99% sure they're reading that.
  - jtwaleson 8y ago
    Absolutely not 99%. More like 1%.
    - ben_w 8y ago
      I suspect that the more likely you are to moan about the management, the more likely (1) the management wants to look at you because you’re always negative, and (2) the more likely the management wants to look at you because they’re the sort of control freaks that you want to moan about in the first place. I’m glad I don’t have that problem.
forapurpose 8y ago
> More likely just phones without access to facebook's internal corporate network ... Do you know that or is it just a guess?
trhway 8y ago
>Calling these "burner phones" is a little silly. They are just completely private, non-corporate phones. there is significant difference. Private non-corporate phones are usually connected to your name just by virtue of you having an account with cell phone provider in your name or activating the phone in a way that still naturally leads to you. A burner is typically cash-based bought/prepaid phone activated without any direct/indirect connection to your name or any other of your accounts/profiles/etc. Given the power of FB (and money involved - i mean every scandal moves like $100B of valuation - the cost of one year war in Iraq) i think it is very reasonable and prudent of its employees to use actual burners not just private phones.
calhoun137 8y ago
>> Calling these "burner phones" is a little silly. I agree, but it's still not as silly as how many people are commenting in here about whether or not its ok to call it a "burner phone" lol
- wDCzI78WRQaC1e3 8y ago
  If Facebook employees aren't literally setting those phones on fire then we shouldn't call them burner phones.

iamdave 8y ago

Calling these "burner phones" is a little silly. They are just completely private, non-corporate phones. So a phone used to duck surveillance from a powerful entity to conduct discussions about things you don't want that entity knowing about, colloquially goes by what other name then? I get it if the implicit association between a "real" burner phone and these devices might not be a complete and perfect parallel but I think here the term is apt (unless we're legitimately just talking about someone's every day personal phone, but that wasn't the impression I got-the article doesn't really talk more about what these devices are)

SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
Meh, typically burner would be disposable. He’s arguing you don’t need to ‘burn’ this device after using. It’s just a normal phone that you can keep using. Burner-like if it works better for you.
- iamdave 8y ago
  He’s arguing you don’t need to ‘burn’ this device after using. It’s just a normal phone that you can keep using We don't know that as a fact, do we? In this specific case I mean, I know how burner phones are used, but we have from the piece an interesting nugget that isn't really fleshed out. Maybe the employee just used 'burner phone' to get the point across quickly of the lengths employees were going through, maybe it's an allusion to something more but it's a nugget I found interesting nonetheless.
compiler-guy 8y ago
They don't duck surveillance from facebook as you and I know it, but from facebook as an employer, which is very different. If a company provides your phone, then it has access to it, and if you don't want your company to have access to what you do on it, you use a different phone. If you want the convenience of a personal phone that you can check your work mail (or work facebook groups) on, then you grant access to that company. It isn't any different from when a law firm or bank provides its employees phones. If you don't want that firm or bank to read what you write on it, then you need another phone. A "burner phone" gets thrown away--"burned"--to prevent the someone from tracking you. You don't allow anyone to know you use it. No one at facebook cares if you use a second phone. So some better terms would be "personal phone" or "non-corporate phone".
- iamdave 8y ago
  If a company provides your phone, then it has access to it, and if you don't want your company to have access to what you do on it, you use a different phone. If you want the convenience of a personal phone that you can check your work mail (or work facebook groups) on, then you grant access to that company. Right, and as I said in another comment, my statement here isn't to suggest I don't know what a burner phone is. My statement above is because I'd think someone would either say "We use our personal phones" or something similar to describe how they talk about FB without FB knowing it. Describing your personal phone as a "burner phone" seems odd and possibly telling that there's something else there. There very well might NOT be, but as I mentioned before: the article doesn't really say much further so it's hard to know.
  - diminoten 8y ago
    > Describing your personal phone as a "burner phone" seems odd and possibly telling that there's something else there. Doesn't seem odd to me, in the context of a) a former employee sensationalizing the situation and/or b) hiding behavior from any employer.
    - Varcht 8y ago
      Next you will tell us that Trump really had his "wires tapped"...
rrix2 8y ago
> So a phone used to duck surveillance from a powerful entity to conduct discussions about things you don't want that entity knowing about, colloquially goes by what other name then? A "personal device"
- babygoat 8y ago
  Surely you jest.
lisper 8y ago
A burner phone is one that you intend to discard after using it to conduct some clandestine, often illegal, activity. Just because a phone is private doesn't make it a burner.
- philipov 8y ago
  A burner is a phone you intend to discard if it becomes compromised. Just because you don't have to burn it doesn't make it not a burner.
  - FPGAhacker 8y ago
    Because you will definitely know when your phone is compromised.
  - diminoten 8y ago
    So then this most certainly isn't a burner phone situation, because Facebook employees wouldn't actually "burn" these phones.
  - mbrumlow 8y ago
    It is not when compromised. It all depends on your threat level and what you are using it for. Some people use once and burn, some burn one a day, or once a week, and some -- like you said, burn when they think it is compromised.
- chongli 8y ago
  Often illegal, but not always. Prudent travelers use burner phones when they cross borders in order to avoid dragnet searches by customs.
asauce 8y ago
Facebook gives employees corporate phones. It seemed to me that these "burner" phones were just personal phones sensationalized for the article. At my last job I was given a corporate phone as well as my own personal phone. Some coworkers decided to do everything on their corporate phone. I chose to keep the two separate, but I wouldn't say that I was using my personal phone as a "burner".
- iamdave 8y ago
  It seemed to me that these "burner" phones were just personal phones sensationalized for the article. Definitely do not want to rule that out, you're right to bring this up, but agreed. Calling your personal phone a 'burner', seems novel? Not sure if there's a better word there.
craftyguy 8y ago
> So a phone used to duck surveillance from a powerful entity to conduct discussions about things you don't want that entity knowing about, colloquially goes by what other name then? Yes. A burner phone is a device you use once or twice, then dump (burn). I seriously doubt bookface employees are dumping their personal cell phones after sending a couple shit talk messages to their friends about their employer.
garmaine 8y ago
> So a phone used to duck surveillance from a powerful entity to conduct discussions about things you don't want that entity knowing about, colloquially goes by what other name then? A non-corporate phone. “Burner phone” is something very specific and refers to prepaid phones without attached identity at the network level. Which, as the name implies, can be “burned” (discarded) after use.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

pvarangot 8y ago

It is a burner phone. What's silly is you have to use those techniques to discuss office politics with your coworkers.

randyrand 8y ago
Is it? I do the same thing. My 'burner phone' is my personal phone that I use 24/7 for everything, and I have a separate work phone with default VPN required, etc. It's not really a burner phone.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> Calling these "burner phones" is a little silly Calling a personal phone your "burner phone" is silly. But if you work at Facebook, you're aware your personal phone may be leaking data. A phone purchased specifically to talk about things you don't want Facebook to hear is roughly accurately described as a "burner," even if it isn't discarded after use. (Broadly speaking, this is a prudent step for whistleblowers to take. Buy a cheap phone, turn off all non-essential services, and install Signal.)

neves 8y ago
You have a high quality phone given to you from the company you work. Since you don't trust your company, you fell the need to buy another phone that will depreciate in a couple of years. You also need to carry another brick in your pocket or purse. Just to be able to talk freely. Sure it is a burn phone. I have wifi access when I'm on my company, but I don't feel the need to buy another phone just to be able to speak freely.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > I don't feel the need to buy another phone just to be able to speak freely If you aren’t whistleblowing, that’s reasonable. Companies have every tool available to pursue NDA breachers, trader secret stealers and insider traders on their hands to chase whistleblowers. Phones are cheaper than heavy litigation and the threat of prison time.
  - disgruntledphd2 8y ago
    Even when a company gives me a phone, I keep my personal. If you leave a company unexpectedly (which can happen), it's good if you don't give up the ability to be contacted. I made this mistake in my twenties, and never again.
    - neves 8y ago
      Good point. When a company gives you a phone, can't you mantain the number when you leave?

jbigelow76 8y ago

I've never trusted any company to either pay for my own phone or plan, if that requires allowing it special access. Lot's of companies provide a limited scope Wifi access for contractors, vendors, etc, when on campus. The level of insight might not be as high but the host company can potentially still track things like local network traffic without requiring "special access" beyond Wifi usage. If the FB employees don't want to acknowledge the existence of these phones then they are definitely "burners".

unethical_ban 8y ago
Any phone with mobile device management (MDM) like SecureWeb or "Good" or others, can see at the least, all the apps installed on the phone, as well as the ability to remote wipe phones. Don't know if they have the capacity to read data for individual apps. And if you have your employer manage your phone plan, I assume they have access to your call records.

3pt14159 8y ago

I've seen first hand people high up in startups monitoring what their employees say in assumed-to-be-private chats to each other. Technically it was part of the employee agreement that nobody read. It's not a perfect, but one way to tell that the startup you're in is monitoring you is that they hand you a computer with your login already created. If you're opening up the Apple box yourself then it's much more likely to be free from keyloggers, etc. But don't trust shared sign-in stuff like Google Apps for Business to be private.

Consultant32452 8y ago
It always amazes me how many people are willing to bash management over work chat. Like... you can be 99% sure they're reading that.
- jtwaleson 8y ago
  Absolutely not 99%. More like 1%.
  - ben_w 8y ago
    I suspect that the more likely you are to moan about the management, the more likely (1) the management wants to look at you because you’re always negative, and (2) the more likely the management wants to look at you because they’re the sort of control freaks that you want to moan about in the first place. I’m glad I don’t have that problem.

forapurpose 8y ago

> More likely just phones without access to facebook's internal corporate network ... Do you know that or is it just a guess?

trhway 8y ago

>Calling these "burner phones" is a little silly. They are just completely private, non-corporate phones. there is significant difference. Private non-corporate phones are usually connected to your name just by virtue of you having an account with cell phone provider in your name or activating the phone in a way that still naturally leads to you. A burner is typically cash-based bought/prepaid phone activated without any direct/indirect connection to your name or any other of your accounts/profiles/etc. Given the power of FB (and money involved - i mean every scandal moves like $100B of valuation - the cost of one year war in Iraq) i think it is very reasonable and prudent of its employees to use actual burners not just private phones.

calhoun137 8y ago

>> Calling these "burner phones" is a little silly. I agree, but it's still not as silly as how many people are commenting in here about whether or not its ok to call it a "burner phone" lol

wDCzI78WRQaC1e3 8y ago
If Facebook employees aren't literally setting those phones on fire then we shouldn't call them burner phones.