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What strange is, I can see unlocking the car and even starting it with this attack -- but do the cars not continually (or at least every minute or two) revalida

What strange is, I can see unlocking the car and even starting it with this attack -- but do the cars not continually (or at least every minute or two) revalidate the presence of the key? Once they got very far away from the house, the car should shut off. Or so I would think.

pofilat 8y ago
So if you accidentally drop your keys while entering, or your passenger departs with your key, the car should lock itself 2 minutes later while you are driving?
- dawnerd 8y ago
  Yeah, sounds reasonable to me. Either of those situations should already be solved. My car at least yells if the key goes away when the car is on and if you’re dumb enough to keep driving and that’s kinda on you.
  - toss1 8y ago
    No, it is not reasonable for the car to stop suddenly without the key. Even if it stops by going into an emergency limp mode, this could seriously endanger the occupants by leaving them in a dangerous traffic situation, a dangerous location, or with other issues. This is why every car company has examined it and chosen to not do it. This feature actually saved huge inconvenience for us once. While visiting the other coast for wife's mom in the hospital, we used one of her parent's cars to drive to the airport with her brother to drive it back. We get out at the airport, get luggage, hugs, bye, head into terminal -- with the key still in her purse. Car running, doesn't notify him until too late to chase. If it stopped after 2min, he'd be stuck somewhere outside an airport 100mi away from anyone he knew. Instead, he just drove it home, got & used the other key for a few days, and we mailed back the first key when we arrived. Things that seem reasonable at first....
    - heavenlyblue 8y ago
      Well, it means that a simple presence of a key in the vicinity of a car isn’t enough to answer the question of “will this key be present there” by the ene of the journey. It means the key has to he inserted somewhere. That makes it both safe and predictable.
    - swift532 8y ago
      As someone who turns their car on by inserting their key into a slot in it, all this seems quite convoluted just for the convenience of pushing a button. I don't understand why the car would even let you accelerate at all if the key isn't inside the actual car (even if it's just in your pocket, if you insist on pressing a button).
      - toss1 8y ago
        The key has to be in it to start it, but once started, the key can go away and it will continue to run. (& yes, I still start my car with a key that is inserted, and mine also has a clutch & manual H-pattern 5-speed)
        swift532 8y ago
        Sorry, perhaps I should've put my commment higher up. I was referring to the general problem of the article, which I understood to be enabled (among other things) by the possibility of unlocking, turning on, and driving a car without the car having a means of verifying the key is inside/very close to the car.
  - heywot 8y ago
    I got myself in a bad situation where I set my key fob on the top of my car after a run, changed, jumped into the car, and got onto the highway before realizing my mistake. The fob fell onto the road and was run over and destroyed before I could get to it. Thankfully I left my car running during this time and was still able to get home. The way it works is reasonable. Maybe tighten up the proximity. But honestly, I miss my classic keys.
- pixl97 8y ago
  Or drop to 5MPH and flash the lights and horn.
wvenable 8y ago
> but do the cars not continually (or at least every minute or two) revalidate the presence of the key? Mine will beep for a bit if I leave the car with the key. But the vehicle also works when the fob's battery is depleted (it has an RFID tag and an embedded physical key for the door). Having the car randomly shut off based on something so potentially flakey seems like a worse idea.
bdcravens 8y ago
In the article, the first car mentioned the car was found in a parking lot, contents emptied. If they wanted to take it to a chop shop, easy enough to take it far enough to put on a flatbed.
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  Maybe they came across a better car?
lintroller 8y ago
> Once they got very far away from the house, the car should shut off. Or so I would think. In the event that the actual owner of the car left their fob at their previous stop and discovers this fact 40 miles down the highway later, if the car were to stop, the driver is now stranded with a car that won't start. As it is now, as long as there is enough gas in the tank, the owner can just drive back and get it.
- jessaustin 8y ago
  That's why the car should stop after less than a mile, or even not go into drive at all, rather than driving 40 miles. In your scenario, how will the driver discover that the key is missing without turning the car off and then finding herself unable to turn it back on?
asdff 8y ago
That seems pretty dangerous. Why not just have the car beep at you?

pofilat 8y ago

So if you accidentally drop your keys while entering, or your passenger departs with your key, the car should lock itself 2 minutes later while you are driving?

dawnerd 8y ago
Yeah, sounds reasonable to me. Either of those situations should already be solved. My car at least yells if the key goes away when the car is on and if you’re dumb enough to keep driving and that’s kinda on you.
- toss1 8y ago
  No, it is not reasonable for the car to stop suddenly without the key. Even if it stops by going into an emergency limp mode, this could seriously endanger the occupants by leaving them in a dangerous traffic situation, a dangerous location, or with other issues. This is why every car company has examined it and chosen to not do it. This feature actually saved huge inconvenience for us once. While visiting the other coast for wife's mom in the hospital, we used one of her parent's cars to drive to the airport with her brother to drive it back. We get out at the airport, get luggage, hugs, bye, head into terminal -- with the key still in her purse. Car running, doesn't notify him until too late to chase. If it stopped after 2min, he'd be stuck somewhere outside an airport 100mi away from anyone he knew. Instead, he just drove it home, got & used the other key for a few days, and we mailed back the first key when we arrived. Things that seem reasonable at first....
  - heavenlyblue 8y ago
    Well, it means that a simple presence of a key in the vicinity of a car isn’t enough to answer the question of “will this key be present there” by the ene of the journey. It means the key has to he inserted somewhere. That makes it both safe and predictable.
  - swift532 8y ago
    As someone who turns their car on by inserting their key into a slot in it, all this seems quite convoluted just for the convenience of pushing a button. I don't understand why the car would even let you accelerate at all if the key isn't inside the actual car (even if it's just in your pocket, if you insist on pressing a button).
    - toss1 8y ago
      The key has to be in it to start it, but once started, the key can go away and it will continue to run. (& yes, I still start my car with a key that is inserted, and mine also has a clutch & manual H-pattern 5-speed)
      - swift532 8y ago
        Sorry, perhaps I should've put my commment higher up. I was referring to the general problem of the article, which I understood to be enabled (among other things) by the possibility of unlocking, turning on, and driving a car without the car having a means of verifying the key is inside/very close to the car.
- heywot 8y ago
  I got myself in a bad situation where I set my key fob on the top of my car after a run, changed, jumped into the car, and got onto the highway before realizing my mistake. The fob fell onto the road and was run over and destroyed before I could get to it. Thankfully I left my car running during this time and was still able to get home. The way it works is reasonable. Maybe tighten up the proximity. But honestly, I miss my classic keys.
pixl97 8y ago
Or drop to 5MPH and flash the lights and horn.

wvenable 8y ago

> but do the cars not continually (or at least every minute or two) revalidate the presence of the key? Mine will beep for a bit if I leave the car with the key. But the vehicle also works when the fob's battery is depleted (it has an RFID tag and an embedded physical key for the door). Having the car randomly shut off based on something so potentially flakey seems like a worse idea.

bdcravens 8y ago

In the article, the first car mentioned the car was found in a parking lot, contents emptied. If they wanted to take it to a chop shop, easy enough to take it far enough to put on a flatbed.

Scoundreller 8y ago
Maybe they came across a better car?

lintroller 8y ago

> Once they got very far away from the house, the car should shut off. Or so I would think. In the event that the actual owner of the car left their fob at their previous stop and discovers this fact 40 miles down the highway later, if the car were to stop, the driver is now stranded with a car that won't start. As it is now, as long as there is enough gas in the tank, the owner can just drive back and get it.

jessaustin 8y ago
That's why the car should stop after less than a mile, or even not go into drive at all, rather than driving 40 miles. In your scenario, how will the driver discover that the key is missing without turning the car off and then finding herself unable to turn it back on?

asdff 8y ago

That seems pretty dangerous. Why not just have the car beep at you?