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Just charge for it. That encourages efficient allocation of the resource (land). If the government mandated free ice cream for everyone there would likely be a

Just charge for it. That encourages efficient allocation of the resource (land). If the government mandated free ice cream for everyone there would likely be an ice cream shortage. The solution would be to charge more for ice cream, not just try to increase the supply to meet demand (which is basically infinity when the cost is 0)

Gobd 8y ago
I agree with this idea, amusingly the parking lot used to be pay to park then the town made it free. I don't see a problem with charging a minimum, then hourly up to a max, just make sure it's cheap enough, maybe max $8 a day. This would give the town money to use to help the problem, either more parking or better public transit options.
ars 8y ago
It also encourages people to go elsewhere. I needed glasses recently, with my insurance I had a choice of 4 stores. I went to the one with free parking. (Google maps streetview is great for checking that.) Requiring paid parking in a tourist town encourages people to visit a different town.
- safepants 8y ago
  If all your tourist town has going for it is free parking, I don't think it's worth visiting anyways.
- graeme 8y ago
  Choosing a store within a town is different from choosing a different town. All the old style tourist towns with limited parking seem to be doing more than fine. I live in such a neighbourhood, with no parking minimums and paid parking. People still visit.
  - ars 8y ago
    Think about it like this: Why is there paid parking? It's because demand exceeds supply, so they require a fee in order to encourage people not to come. But that means you could have more visitors. Now, if you are maxed out, then good, paid parking makes sense - send those tourists elsewhere. But if more visitors = more money, and that is something the town wants, then adding more parking, and reducing fees is what the town should do. Which is what I said: "It also encourages people to go elsewhere." It boils down to this: When choosing paid parking make sure this is what you want, that you want people not to come. (And I acknowledge that in certain situations it makes sense to want that.) And I know what you are thinking: You'd rather they take the bus or whatever. But think about this: Why do they chose to drive anyway, forcing you have to encourage them not to? Clearly there is something lacking with the bus, to the point that you have to deliberately make driving worse just to induce them to use it.
    - TeMPOraL 8y ago
      > And I know what you are thinking: You'd rather they take the bus or whatever. But think about this: Why do they chose to drive anyway, forcing you have to encourage them not to? It doesn't work like this. Imagine a person considering visiting the town. They have a threshold of pain/effort in their mind, say V, above which they'll just go sightseeing elsewhere. Let C be the pain/effort of visiting our town by car, and B the pain/effort of visiting by bus. If C < B < V, they'll visit by car. If you can arrange to have C > B, while still keeping B < V, they'll still visit, but via a bus. So the goal for a town is to make it so that for most interested people, B < C && B < V.
    - graeme 8y ago
      Have you ever been to Europe? People just don't use cars when visiting most cities there. They walk, take a bus, use an Uber. I live in Montreal, and it's the same when tourists come here. They may drive to the city, but they leave their car parked the whole time. (Side streets out of the center have some free parking. Commercial arteries and downtown core is paid) Sure, you could have more parking for cars, but you might not have more people. And with too much parking you destroy the city you want to visit. Edmonton and Calgary have plentiful parking, and no ones goes to visit them, except as a stopping point to see the wilderness around the city.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  Another cooperation problem, sadly. It'd be best if all the towns started to reduce parking and make it more expensive, so that going elsewhere wouldn't even be a consideration.
- lsc 8y ago
  I know people like that, who would drive for a long time to avoid paying a dollar and it always seemed like such weird behavior to me. I remember going to get pastrami in LA with a friend; I mean, twenty dollar sandwiches, and he didn't want to pay three bucks for parking, instead wanted to drive more. So weird.
  - burfog 8y ago
    I drove around San Francisco for 3 hours looking for a free parking spot. I eventually found one, in an absurdly wealthy neighborhood. We stopped just to stop and rest for a bit, but obviously by that point we were not going to walk all the way to the restaurant I had intended to visit. They lost my business. I ate some old snacks out of the trunk of the car. No wonder there are traffic problems. Lots more parking is needed. BTW, self-driving will make this far worse for traffic, although better for the businesses. The car can just drive around while I visit the business.
    - arctangos 8y ago
      When I have a problem getting a framework or library to do the thing it’s meant to do, my first instinct isn’t to debug it and submit a PR, but to look at my strategy and figure out where I’m going wrong. In this case, maybe SF is trying to send you a signal: you probably shouldn’t be driving in it. If you can’t change you strategy, then consider changing frameworks: LA historically has had extremely high parking minimums, though that does present its own challenges.
      - burfog 8y ago
        I almost didn't drive. It's a good thing I got the rental car though. The BART that I would have taken from the airport was down due to a strike. One of the days of my visit I tried to get around without the car, and that was a disaster: MUNI stop locations above ground are not announced or lighted, and you can't just count because the vehicle only halts if a person asks it to do so. The bus routes are confusing; I went the wrong way and ended up in a terrifying neighborhood. When things got busy, there was no way to board the cable car. Due to holiday crowds (people who might want service!) most of the system (MUNI, buses, cable cars... everything in the northern half of the city) got shut down for the evening. Later I missed a bus because it stopped on the other corner instead of at the bus stop, and that was the last one so I had to walk several miles in a rather scary city. I suppose SF is sending a signal: you probably shouldn't go there.
- CalRobert 8y ago
  Everyone who walks, cycles, or takes public transport to that store subsidized your parking. I prefer things that are convenient for me, so being located nearby. Given that I live where land is expensive, that means no parking. When I lived in a place where land is expensive and parking is forced on people whether they want it or not (Santa Monica) I just got shafted.
- saint_fiasco 8y ago
  The whole point of encouraging tourism is that tourists are less price sensitive. A local would take the time to research the cheapest store taking into account list price, quality, parking costs and so on. But a tourist probably won't. That's why tourist traps exist.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  I'm not sure that your comparison between getting eyeglasses and visiting a town for what most people would consider a vacation are even remotely the same thing.

Gobd 8y ago

I agree with this idea, amusingly the parking lot used to be pay to park then the town made it free. I don't see a problem with charging a minimum, then hourly up to a max, just make sure it's cheap enough, maybe max $8 a day. This would give the town money to use to help the problem, either more parking or better public transit options.

ars 8y ago

It also encourages people to go elsewhere. I needed glasses recently, with my insurance I had a choice of 4 stores. I went to the one with free parking. (Google maps streetview is great for checking that.) Requiring paid parking in a tourist town encourages people to visit a different town.

safepants 8y ago
If all your tourist town has going for it is free parking, I don't think it's worth visiting anyways.
graeme 8y ago
Choosing a store within a town is different from choosing a different town. All the old style tourist towns with limited parking seem to be doing more than fine. I live in such a neighbourhood, with no parking minimums and paid parking. People still visit.
- ars 8y ago
  Think about it like this: Why is there paid parking? It's because demand exceeds supply, so they require a fee in order to encourage people not to come. But that means you could have more visitors. Now, if you are maxed out, then good, paid parking makes sense - send those tourists elsewhere. But if more visitors = more money, and that is something the town wants, then adding more parking, and reducing fees is what the town should do. Which is what I said: "It also encourages people to go elsewhere." It boils down to this: When choosing paid parking make sure this is what you want, that you want people not to come. (And I acknowledge that in certain situations it makes sense to want that.) And I know what you are thinking: You'd rather they take the bus or whatever. But think about this: Why do they chose to drive anyway, forcing you have to encourage them not to? Clearly there is something lacking with the bus, to the point that you have to deliberately make driving worse just to induce them to use it.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    > And I know what you are thinking: You'd rather they take the bus or whatever. But think about this: Why do they chose to drive anyway, forcing you have to encourage them not to? It doesn't work like this. Imagine a person considering visiting the town. They have a threshold of pain/effort in their mind, say V, above which they'll just go sightseeing elsewhere. Let C be the pain/effort of visiting our town by car, and B the pain/effort of visiting by bus. If C < B < V, they'll visit by car. If you can arrange to have C > B, while still keeping B < V, they'll still visit, but via a bus. So the goal for a town is to make it so that for most interested people, B < C && B < V.
  - graeme 8y ago
    Have you ever been to Europe? People just don't use cars when visiting most cities there. They walk, take a bus, use an Uber. I live in Montreal, and it's the same when tourists come here. They may drive to the city, but they leave their car parked the whole time. (Side streets out of the center have some free parking. Commercial arteries and downtown core is paid) Sure, you could have more parking for cars, but you might not have more people. And with too much parking you destroy the city you want to visit. Edmonton and Calgary have plentiful parking, and no ones goes to visit them, except as a stopping point to see the wilderness around the city.
TeMPOraL 8y ago
Another cooperation problem, sadly. It'd be best if all the towns started to reduce parking and make it more expensive, so that going elsewhere wouldn't even be a consideration.
lsc 8y ago
I know people like that, who would drive for a long time to avoid paying a dollar and it always seemed like such weird behavior to me. I remember going to get pastrami in LA with a friend; I mean, twenty dollar sandwiches, and he didn't want to pay three bucks for parking, instead wanted to drive more. So weird.
- burfog 8y ago
  I drove around San Francisco for 3 hours looking for a free parking spot. I eventually found one, in an absurdly wealthy neighborhood. We stopped just to stop and rest for a bit, but obviously by that point we were not going to walk all the way to the restaurant I had intended to visit. They lost my business. I ate some old snacks out of the trunk of the car. No wonder there are traffic problems. Lots more parking is needed. BTW, self-driving will make this far worse for traffic, although better for the businesses. The car can just drive around while I visit the business.
  - arctangos 8y ago
    When I have a problem getting a framework or library to do the thing it’s meant to do, my first instinct isn’t to debug it and submit a PR, but to look at my strategy and figure out where I’m going wrong. In this case, maybe SF is trying to send you a signal: you probably shouldn’t be driving in it. If you can’t change you strategy, then consider changing frameworks: LA historically has had extremely high parking minimums, though that does present its own challenges.
    - burfog 8y ago
      I almost didn't drive. It's a good thing I got the rental car though. The BART that I would have taken from the airport was down due to a strike. One of the days of my visit I tried to get around without the car, and that was a disaster: MUNI stop locations above ground are not announced or lighted, and you can't just count because the vehicle only halts if a person asks it to do so. The bus routes are confusing; I went the wrong way and ended up in a terrifying neighborhood. When things got busy, there was no way to board the cable car. Due to holiday crowds (people who might want service!) most of the system (MUNI, buses, cable cars... everything in the northern half of the city) got shut down for the evening. Later I missed a bus because it stopped on the other corner instead of at the bus stop, and that was the last one so I had to walk several miles in a rather scary city. I suppose SF is sending a signal: you probably shouldn't go there.
CalRobert 8y ago
Everyone who walks, cycles, or takes public transport to that store subsidized your parking. I prefer things that are convenient for me, so being located nearby. Given that I live where land is expensive, that means no parking. When I lived in a place where land is expensive and parking is forced on people whether they want it or not (Santa Monica) I just got shafted.
saint_fiasco 8y ago
The whole point of encouraging tourism is that tourists are less price sensitive. A local would take the time to research the cheapest store taking into account list price, quality, parking costs and so on. But a tourist probably won't. That's why tourist traps exist.
craftyguy 8y ago
I'm not sure that your comparison between getting eyeglasses and visiting a town for what most people would consider a vacation are even remotely the same thing.