5 ms·

Without wishing to sound flippant, as a society we've developed a mechanism to control the allocation of scarce resources - pricing. It sounds a lot like the pa

by jnty 8y ago

Without wishing to sound flippant, as a society we've developed a mechanism to control the allocation of scarce resources - pricing. It sounds a lot like the parking you're describing is extremely underpriced, both in the demand/supply sense (demand is outstripping supply) and in the externalities sense (impacts to tourism, issues like air quality caused by traffic hunting for a space, walkability death spiral etc.) For such a capitalist country as the US, the die-hard attachment to free or overcheap parking is really odd.

barrow-rider 8y ago
Everyone notices the pay parking in the US because everyone drives.
- CalRobert 8y ago
  1) Not everyone drives. 2) They notice it because they're used to getting it for free. Do people notice pay-renting in the US because everyone needs to sleep somewhere? Or do we just understand that using land comes with a cost? It shouldn't cost less to give a place to sleep to a car than to a person.
  - EpicEng 8y ago
    >It shouldn't cost less to give a place to sleep to a car than to a person Really? It shouldn't? Beyond the obvious fact that people in the US _need_ cars (it's not an option for most), parking space costs far less to build and maintain than does a home.
    - cozzyd 8y ago
      I don't own a car (like the majority of people who live in my apartment building). A parking spot (including alley space required for egress) takes up 50% of the space of my apartment.
    - eherot 8y ago
      Arguably people need a home more than they need a car even in the most extreme cases.
      - lazerpants 8y ago
        > even in the most extreme cases Not true. A car can function as a home, but not vice versa, so in extreme cases this is almost unilaterally untrue.
    - CalRobert 8y ago
      Why do they need cars? because you can't walk to things. Why can't you walk to things? Because they're so far apart. Why are they so far apart? Because a) parking minimums mean more land is given to parking than the actual amenity, and b) zoning forces single-use and density maximums Why do people want parking minimums and zoning restrictions like that? Because it's annoying to drive through high density. Why do they need cars? on and on and on It's not an option because we built an entire country for 2 ton beings that need 30 feet to move in a circle, rather than humans. Can ants walk across Manhattan? Seriously, look at your standard US "shopping center" and it's almost entirely parking. The lots dwarf the actual buildings.
      - EpicEng 8y ago
        If I accept your entire premise (I don't, I think there are a lot of cases you're missing here), I still don't see how you come up with a solution. You're going into the history of how we got here, but it doesn't matter to the person who just needs a parking space. They're already here and they cannot afford a parking spot that costs as much as their mortgage. I agree that we have done a putiful job in providing public transportation and designing cities around the notion that reducing cars is a good thing, but to argue that a parking spot should cost as much as rent is ludicrous. It is completely impractical and will never happen.
maxsilver 8y ago
> For such a capitalist country as the US, the die-hard attachment to free or overcheap parking is really odd. The US is also a country defined by an extreme attention to individual freedom and personal liberty. It's practically a meme that "Americans love Freedom" (using the American definition of 'Freedom'). Limiting parking in any way is, in practice, a very real limitation on a person's freedom to exist and/or move about. This is why parking is given such high attention. Obviously not every single American drives (and I'm not justifying this response, just attempting to explain it) but when you limit roads/parking, you are effectively telling the vast majority of Americans that they should never be allowed somewhere, and they react accordingly. You can think of this as like the American version of how France has major protests/riots whenever their leadership does something really bad/unpopular against the citizens.
- CalRobert 8y ago
  By this logic I should get free hotel rooms when I visit places.
  - maxsilver 8y ago
    You effectively do, in that we pay for lots of private spaces for the general public to use. This is the same logic that makes Public Libraries free to all, even if you aren't a resident of that city or state. Public Restrooms, too, and so on. If your argument is that we should have stronger public housing, to mimic public parking and/or for consistency sake -- I agree 100%.
    - EpicEng 8y ago
      Please tell me where to find these free hotels. What a sucker I've been paying for rooms my entire life.
      - coraltime 8y ago
        maxsilver was not claiming that cities currently offer free hotel rooms as you're implying, but rather that cities already provide adjacent services---suggesting that free hotel rooms might not be a totally crazy idea---and that in general we ought to have stronger public housing. Do you disagree? Why?

by jnty 8y ago

barrow-rider 8y ago

Everyone notices the pay parking in the US because everyone drives.

CalRobert 8y ago
1) Not everyone drives. 2) They notice it because they're used to getting it for free. Do people notice pay-renting in the US because everyone needs to sleep somewhere? Or do we just understand that using land comes with a cost? It shouldn't cost less to give a place to sleep to a car than to a person.
- EpicEng 8y ago
  >It shouldn't cost less to give a place to sleep to a car than to a person Really? It shouldn't? Beyond the obvious fact that people in the US _need_ cars (it's not an option for most), parking space costs far less to build and maintain than does a home.
  - cozzyd 8y ago
    I don't own a car (like the majority of people who live in my apartment building). A parking spot (including alley space required for egress) takes up 50% of the space of my apartment.
  - eherot 8y ago
    Arguably people need a home more than they need a car even in the most extreme cases.
    - lazerpants 8y ago
      > even in the most extreme cases Not true. A car can function as a home, but not vice versa, so in extreme cases this is almost unilaterally untrue.
  - CalRobert 8y ago
    Why do they need cars? because you can't walk to things. Why can't you walk to things? Because they're so far apart. Why are they so far apart? Because a) parking minimums mean more land is given to parking than the actual amenity, and b) zoning forces single-use and density maximums Why do people want parking minimums and zoning restrictions like that? Because it's annoying to drive through high density. Why do they need cars? on and on and on It's not an option because we built an entire country for 2 ton beings that need 30 feet to move in a circle, rather than humans. Can ants walk across Manhattan? Seriously, look at your standard US "shopping center" and it's almost entirely parking. The lots dwarf the actual buildings.
    - EpicEng 8y ago
      If I accept your entire premise (I don't, I think there are a lot of cases you're missing here), I still don't see how you come up with a solution. You're going into the history of how we got here, but it doesn't matter to the person who just needs a parking space. They're already here and they cannot afford a parking spot that costs as much as their mortgage. I agree that we have done a putiful job in providing public transportation and designing cities around the notion that reducing cars is a good thing, but to argue that a parking spot should cost as much as rent is ludicrous. It is completely impractical and will never happen.

maxsilver 8y ago

> For such a capitalist country as the US, the die-hard attachment to free or overcheap parking is really odd. The US is also a country defined by an extreme attention to individual freedom and personal liberty. It's practically a meme that "Americans love Freedom" (using the American definition of 'Freedom'). Limiting parking in any way is, in practice, a very real limitation on a person's freedom to exist and/or move about. This is why parking is given such high attention. Obviously not every single American drives (and I'm not justifying this response, just attempting to explain it) but when you limit roads/parking, you are effectively telling the vast majority of Americans that they should never be allowed somewhere, and they react accordingly. You can think of this as like the American version of how France has major protests/riots whenever their leadership does something really bad/unpopular against the citizens.

CalRobert 8y ago
By this logic I should get free hotel rooms when I visit places.
- maxsilver 8y ago
  You effectively do, in that we pay for lots of private spaces for the general public to use. This is the same logic that makes Public Libraries free to all, even if you aren't a resident of that city or state. Public Restrooms, too, and so on. If your argument is that we should have stronger public housing, to mimic public parking and/or for consistency sake -- I agree 100%.
  - EpicEng 8y ago
    Please tell me where to find these free hotels. What a sucker I've been paying for rooms my entire life.
    - coraltime 8y ago
      maxsilver was not claiming that cities currently offer free hotel rooms as you're implying, but rather that cities already provide adjacent services---suggesting that free hotel rooms might not be a totally crazy idea---and that in general we ought to have stronger public housing. Do you disagree? Why?