5 ms·

I expect that WPF and WinForms are still windows-only, correct?

by hprotagonist 8y ago

merriemcgaw 8y ago
That is correct, they will still be Windows-only technologies.
- bialpio 8y ago
  WPF apps are supposed to work on .NET Core and .NET Core is multiplatform so I'd say it's not windows-only - am I missing something here?
  - miguelrochefort 8y ago
    They use Windows-specific APIs for input and rendering and what not.
  - amatwl 8y ago
    This is where .NET Core gets confusing. They're just able to run on the .NET Core runtime (versus the "full" .NET Framework). WPF uses DirectX heavily, so it's not like Microsoft just ported DirectX to non-Windows platforms.
  - stetrain 8y ago
    "The highlight of .NET Core 3 is support for Windows desktop applications, specifically Windows Forms, Windows Presentation Framework (WPF), and UWP XAML. You will be able to run new and existing Windows desktop applications on .NET Core and enjoy all the benefits that .NET Core has to offer." WPF, Windows Forms, and UWP are listed under the Windows-Only Desktop Packs section in the diagram. https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/05/07/net-core-3-and-support-for-windows-desktop-applications/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/05/07/net-core-...
    - bialpio 8y ago
      Got it, thanks!
  - interesthrow2 8y ago
    https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/05/07/net-core-3-and-support-for-windows-desktop-applications/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/05/07/net-core-... Things are a bit more complicated than that, I guess that's specifically why Microsoft is open sourcing "the desktop pack", because it is not multi-platform.
  - schnide05095 8y ago
    WPF (and the other UI technologies listed) still rely on a lot of the underlying Windows API. Now that they are open sourced though, someone outside MS can work on a port, though I imagine it will take a non-trivial amount of effort. The change here is that .Net Core now supports it, but only if you reference the appropriate SDK[1] [1] https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/12/04/announcing-net-core-3-preview-1-and-open-sourcing-windows-desktop-frameworks/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/12/04/announcin...
  - oblio 8y ago
    The Windows stuff is an add-on pack which is Windows only.
  - merb 8y ago
    they use dllimport to use native windows dll's: https://github.com/dotnet/winforms/search?q=dllimport&unscoped_q=dllimport https://github.com/dotnet/winforms/search?q=dllimport&unscop...
merb 8y ago
except that maybe some user now can make a pr for linux
- daniel-levin 8y ago
  The code has been accessible for a while now, albeit still licensed as proprietary. I went through it a few weeks ago. The Winforms code depends heavily on GDI APIs, which AFAIK are windows only and closed source
  - amyjess 8y ago
    Hasn't WINE already reimplemented those APIs? I'm sure it wouldn't be impossible to kitbash this release with WINE and get it working on Linux.
    - qwerty456127 8y ago
      BTW if Microsoft chooses to go opensource one day they can just start improving Wine together with CodeWeavers, ReactOS team and the community to the point when it could replace Windows completely. This is approximately the way they have chosen to go with their web browser switching to the Chromium Blink engine.
      - monocasa 8y ago
        I bet Microsoft has an absolutely killer win32 regression suite. If we're devolving into pipe dreams, I'd probably want that even more than the actual win32 code.
  - juliangoldsmith 8y ago
    There's an open-source implementation GDI through WINE, so it should be possible to get Microsoft's implementation of Winforms running natively on Linux.
    - int_19h 8y ago
miguelrochefort 8y ago
Many projects are porting variants of them to other platforms: Avalonia, Eto, Uno, Xamarin.Forms, etc. Now that it's open source, the process should be even easier.
qwerty456127 8y ago
WinForms is not windows-only, it has been implemented in Mono pretty long ago already. The major reason almost nobody develops WinForms apps on Linux is there is no visual WinForms designer (which is so good and intuitive in VisualStudio and that's a major WinForms strength) on Linux and given you are forced to code it manually other GUI toolkits can be more flexible, more powerful and look better. In fact I have developed some WinForms apps in VisualStudio on Windows specifically intending them to run on every of the 3 major OSes without modification.
- floatboth 8y ago
  Another major reason is that Mono's implementation of WinForms is: - quite buggy - quite ugly - does not support Wayland - does not support accessibility - is literally WinForms. It's a 90s era GUI toolkit.
  - Tehdasi 8y ago
    > - is literally WinForms. It's a 90s era GUI toolkit. I fail to see how this is a problem, mostly because the job it was designed to do (build guis for desktop applications) has seen little innovation since the 90s.
    - ygra 8y ago
      You haven't taken a look at WPF then, I guess?
jammygit 8y ago
Hypothetically, if 10 developers decided to make a WPF fork/patch that would work on linux, would it be a worthwhile project?
- corysama 8y ago
  A lot of people really like WPF. I'd be surprised if that did not happen.
- kevindqc 8y ago
  Would have to wait until like mid-2019, as they didn't open-source everything yet :( Currently only has System.Xaml https://github.com/dotnet/wpf/blob/master/roadmap.md https://github.com/dotnet/wpf/blob/master/roadmap.md
naikrovek 8y ago
As Microsoft release them, yes.

I expect that WPF and WinForms are still windows-only, correct?

merriemcgaw 8y ago

That is correct, they will still be Windows-only technologies.

bialpio 8y ago
WPF apps are supposed to work on .NET Core and .NET Core is multiplatform so I'd say it's not windows-only - am I missing something here?
- miguelrochefort 8y ago
  They use Windows-specific APIs for input and rendering and what not.
- amatwl 8y ago
  This is where .NET Core gets confusing. They're just able to run on the .NET Core runtime (versus the "full" .NET Framework). WPF uses DirectX heavily, so it's not like Microsoft just ported DirectX to non-Windows platforms.
- stetrain 8y ago
  "The highlight of .NET Core 3 is support for Windows desktop applications, specifically Windows Forms, Windows Presentation Framework (WPF), and UWP XAML. You will be able to run new and existing Windows desktop applications on .NET Core and enjoy all the benefits that .NET Core has to offer." WPF, Windows Forms, and UWP are listed under the Windows-Only Desktop Packs section in the diagram. https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/05/07/net-core-3-and-support-for-windows-desktop-applications/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/05/07/net-core-...
  - bialpio 8y ago
    Got it, thanks!
- interesthrow2 8y ago
  https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/05/07/net-core-3-and-support-for-windows-desktop-applications/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/05/07/net-core-... Things are a bit more complicated than that, I guess that's specifically why Microsoft is open sourcing "the desktop pack", because it is not multi-platform.
- schnide05095 8y ago
  WPF (and the other UI technologies listed) still rely on a lot of the underlying Windows API. Now that they are open sourced though, someone outside MS can work on a port, though I imagine it will take a non-trivial amount of effort. The change here is that .Net Core now supports it, but only if you reference the appropriate SDK[1] [1] https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/12/04/announcing-net-core-3-preview-1-and-open-sourcing-windows-desktop-frameworks/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/12/04/announcin...
- oblio 8y ago
  The Windows stuff is an add-on pack which is Windows only.
- merb 8y ago
  they use dllimport to use native windows dll's: https://github.com/dotnet/winforms/search?q=dllimport&unscoped_q=dllimport https://github.com/dotnet/winforms/search?q=dllimport&unscop...

merb 8y ago

except that maybe some user now can make a pr for linux

daniel-levin 8y ago
The code has been accessible for a while now, albeit still licensed as proprietary. I went through it a few weeks ago. The Winforms code depends heavily on GDI APIs, which AFAIK are windows only and closed source
- amyjess 8y ago
  Hasn't WINE already reimplemented those APIs? I'm sure it wouldn't be impossible to kitbash this release with WINE and get it working on Linux.
  - qwerty456127 8y ago
    BTW if Microsoft chooses to go opensource one day they can just start improving Wine together with CodeWeavers, ReactOS team and the community to the point when it could replace Windows completely. This is approximately the way they have chosen to go with their web browser switching to the Chromium Blink engine.
    - monocasa 8y ago
      I bet Microsoft has an absolutely killer win32 regression suite. If we're devolving into pipe dreams, I'd probably want that even more than the actual win32 code.
- juliangoldsmith 8y ago
  There's an open-source implementation GDI through WINE, so it should be possible to get Microsoft's implementation of Winforms running natively on Linux.
  - int_19h 8y ago

miguelrochefort 8y ago

Many projects are porting variants of them to other platforms: Avalonia, Eto, Uno, Xamarin.Forms, etc. Now that it's open source, the process should be even easier.

qwerty456127 8y ago

WinForms is not windows-only, it has been implemented in Mono pretty long ago already. The major reason almost nobody develops WinForms apps on Linux is there is no visual WinForms designer (which is so good and intuitive in VisualStudio and that's a major WinForms strength) on Linux and given you are forced to code it manually other GUI toolkits can be more flexible, more powerful and look better. In fact I have developed some WinForms apps in VisualStudio on Windows specifically intending them to run on every of the 3 major OSes without modification.

floatboth 8y ago
Another major reason is that Mono's implementation of WinForms is: - quite buggy - quite ugly - does not support Wayland - does not support accessibility - is literally WinForms. It's a 90s era GUI toolkit.
- Tehdasi 8y ago
  > - is literally WinForms. It's a 90s era GUI toolkit. I fail to see how this is a problem, mostly because the job it was designed to do (build guis for desktop applications) has seen little innovation since the 90s.
  - ygra 8y ago
    You haven't taken a look at WPF then, I guess?

jammygit 8y ago

Hypothetically, if 10 developers decided to make a WPF fork/patch that would work on linux, would it be a worthwhile project?

corysama 8y ago
A lot of people really like WPF. I'd be surprised if that did not happen.
kevindqc 8y ago
Would have to wait until like mid-2019, as they didn't open-source everything yet :( Currently only has System.Xaml https://github.com/dotnet/wpf/blob/master/roadmap.md https://github.com/dotnet/wpf/blob/master/roadmap.md

naikrovek 8y ago

As Microsoft release them, yes.