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I've found Amsterdam to really have everything I'm looking for in a tech hub. - Super friendly and easy regulatory environment. The Dutch have regulations but
by estsauver 8y ago
I've found Amsterdam to really have everything I'm looking for in a tech hub.
- Super friendly and easy regulatory environment. The Dutch have regulations but there are actual humans you can call at almost any department to get an answer. It's really incredible. I've literally spent more time waiting in the line at SEA/TAC customs then I've spent combined at the dutch immigration service IND.
- Incredible internet. I have 500MB/50Mb at my house and it's no big deal, and perhaps equally importantly my latencies are incredible. The second largest peering point in the world is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam_Internet_Exchange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam_Internet_Exchange
- Unmatched bicycle infrastructure and public transit infrastructure.
- Airport with incredible connectivity. I can have direct flights to most major American cities, almost all of Europe is a ~30$ easyjet flight away and Nairobi is an 8 hour direct flight.
- Pretty reasonable combined income tax burden. There's a 30% ruling that lets you exclude the first 30% of your income as if it didn't exist for most tech workers in NL.
- Reasonable rents (I paid 1450 Eur for a furnished 1BR, probably no where near average rent in Nashville but I live in the center.)
- Almost no homeless people. It's pretty great to live in a society that actually takes care of people.
- Tolerant attitude genuinely. Whether it's marijuana or prostitution in 2018 or other religions in the 18th/19th centuries, Amsterdamers don't really care if it doesn't impact your neighbors.
If you're thinking about taking the plunge and moving somewhere, drop me a line at earl at apolloagriculture dot com. DAFT (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT) makes it pretty easy to set up a Dutch company and get immigration to go with it. If you don't want to start a company/go it yourself and can code, send me an email.
- atom-morgan 8y agoAre the Dutch pretty open to hiring foreigners (Americans)? Other than Booking.com? I visited a few years back, originally scheduled for Barcelona, and was completely blown away by Amsterdam. I fell in love.
- estsauver 8y agoI think companies are generally. If you're in the > 65k euros salary bracket a blue card can be had for not too much trouble. We're open to doing it for exceptional people and we did it for 3 existing employees when we consolidated to Amsterdam.
- fooblat 8y agoI run an engineering team in Amsterdam and we mostly hire foreigners. The reason is simple, there are way more jobs than qualified people here.
- estsauver 8y agoLet me know if you ever want to grab a beer in Oost. :)
- nsgf 8y agoWhat stack/ roles?
- fooblat 8y agoSr Software Eng, react + node, some legacy php.
- dmode 8y agoHow is life in Amsterdam for non-white engineers ? I am genuinely curious as I am considering a move from the US, but Europe has some history with brown folks. Is it possible to be fully integrated into the society and not stick out like a sore thumb ?
- fooblat 8y agoWithin the big cities (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague) people are very tolerant and life is good. No matter your skin color, to fully integrate you do need to learn some Dutch. That being said, there are lots of expats living here and many welcoming communities to be a part of (without learning Dutch). I can only speak for my personal experiences of course.
- 0db532a0 8y agoTo be eligible for the 30% tax ruling, the company needs to prove that it cannot find an equivalent Dutch person. It isn’t a blanket ruling for any foreign person. Even if you do get it, it only lasts for n years. If you don’t, you will find that in light of the otherwise very high taxes and low salaries in comparison to nearby tech hubs, your one bedroom, 1450 a month apartment becomes a dream.
- estsauver 8y agoBlue cards and HSM pretty much always get the ruling, it's definitely not any foreign person. I believe the 30% ruling lasts 5 years now, which also means that you would typically be eligible to be a permanent dutch resident. At that point, you'd have largely the same access to social services (disability etc.) that dutch people do and it seems fair to have equal taxes. What would be the lower tax/high salary comparable in Europe? London has remarkably similar salaries and super high cost of living. (I hear Berlin has a cost of living that's exploding and generally lower salaries.)
- kitten_mittens_ 8y agoHamburg checking in at 930 € furnished. 15 minutes from the city center. My salary is 3.200 a month after taxes. I have a blue card.
- estsauver 8y agoLooks pretty comparable to salary + cost of living in Amsterdam. https://thetax.nl/?year=2018&startFrom=Year&salary=66873.6&allowance=0&socialSecurity=0&retired=0&ruling=1&rulingChoice=normal https://thetax.nl/?year=2018&startFrom=Year&salary=66873.6&a... Blue card minimum salary included in the above link. Hard to know if you'd come out ahead given local cost of living, but you can also probably beat the blue card minimum for your salary in the Netherlands. I know a couple people who make > 100k euros (some contractors, some who have made it pretty far up at bigger companies.)
- 0db532a0 8y agoI’ve lived and worked in both NL and London for significant lengths of time. You are wrong about taxes. In the current tax year, 70k in one year in London would give you 4052 per month after tax. In NL, you would get 3668. That is no insignificant difference. You can verify this by using an online tax calculator. I also don’t agree about the difference in cost of living. To dispel the most common trope, half a litre of beer in Amsterdam is at least 5EUR, and in London a pint (just over half a litre) is 5 pounds, about the same, given differences of currency and units. Eating out is strictly cheaper in London, and of higher quality. Some supermarket items are more expensive from my experience. For a one bedroom flat not too far from say, The City or Old Street, you’re paying at least 1200, and maybe 1400 for something of higher quality. On jobs, I have personally been hard pressed to find anything near the same variety and range of salaries in Amsterdam. There is a reason why so many Dutch programmers move abroad.
- vishnugupta 8y agoAs a recent immigrant (~6 weeks), with my family, I whole wholeheartedly agree to everything. IND is by far the most efficient and friendly government agency I've ever interacted with. They even have a small kids play area! This city is a shining example of what one can achieve if a city is built by keeping humans at the centre. More walking/cycling space, more greenery, etc.,
- estsauver 8y agoI've tried to describe it as a city that happens when you: - Have an expectation that government is efficient and good at it's job and a strong push on cities to meet those goals - A focus on maximizing happiness/human instead of gdp/human. The Dutch could definitely increase GDP 25% next year by requiring a 50 hour work week, but why would they when everyone's pretty happy at 38 hours/week? They're at #6 on the world happiness report (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2018_World_Happiness_Report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2018_Wo...) and it makes sense.
- jsjohnst 8y agoOne important note for US citizens, you still owe federal income tax even when permanently living abroad unless you renounce your citizenship. So while the taxes might be reasonable there, you still may owe the US too for the difference between what you pay there and what you would’ve paid here. It’s even more complicated if you are self-employed in another country. There’s a lot of nuances that I’m not qualified to cover, so I highly recommend talking to an accountant before taking the plunge. Some light reading: https://www.expatinfodesk.com/expat-guide/nationality-specific-information/americans/us-tax-liability/ https://www.expatinfodesk.com/expat-guide/nationality-specif...
- dustintownsend 8y agoMy understanding is if you are able to claim the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion then you wouldn't owe any US Taxes (unless over the $103,900 for 2018), but haven't done this myself and agree that an accountant would need to be in the mix for US Citizens living overseas. Here is another link if anyone is interested: https://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/blog/foreign-earned-income-exclusion-understanding-form-2555/ https://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/blog/foreign-earned-inc...
- maehwasu 8y agoYou are correct. It's also quite easy to claim.
- jsjohnst 8y agoYep! That’s one of the nuances I was referring too.
- Scoundreller 8y agoIt gets trickier with investments and retirement funds (“foreign trusts”). E.g. selling your own home in Canada doesn’t trigger capital gains, but it can on your US tax return.
- adrianh 8y agoI'm an American who moved to Amsterdam three years ago, with that DAFT visa. This is a fantastic society that's figured out so much — I love it. Happy to answer questions and/or meet up with fellow HN readers here in town.
- bogomipz 8y agoWhat was the DAFT process like? What type of business did you start? How often do you need to do reporting to maintain the DAFT visa?
- adrianh 8y agoAn immigration attorney handled it for me, so it was relatively stress-free. Hardest part was getting the various documents (birth certificates apostiled). The reporting is just the annual accounting/taxes.
- bogomipz 8y agoThanks, can I ask how long the whole process took? It's also my understanding that you actually have a certain amount of money in a Dutch banking account as well correct?
- estsauver 8y agoI sent you an email!
- magduf 8y agoDo they smoke as much as the Germans?
- estsauver 8y ago1400 cigarettes/year on average. Germany is 1599.5/year, US is ~1016.6.
- 8y ago